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The main problem with E-Asian martial arts...

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  • #16
    You're refering to san da lei tai and the old challenge match format; no rounds, just continuous fighting until someone wins. 2 master instructors get on the raised platform and do their thing until one takes a beating or gives up. sometimes the 2nd in command will go at it with the other schools 2nd in command.

    The fights did not last several seconds; more like 10 minutes with both instructors pretty beat up. They would not loose face so quickly and were carefull about arranging whom would fight. You would never see a beginner or intermediate student challenge a grand master. That would make the school look foolish.

    Some fights ended up with someone getting launched off of the platform via hip tosses or shoulder throws and landing on whatever surface surrounded the platform or both falling off the platform from a failed throw attempt.

    In the 70's, their was that exhibition between the gong fu masters and pro-thai fighters. The judges did not allow throws or leg reaps (the only viable technique to beat the Thai fighters) All of the gong fu guys got Ko'd. Later, a gong fu master from Malaysia (great sage of Penang) scheduled an exhibition match against a Pro-Thai fighter and won via decision. He used everything but the kitchen sink from his arsenal and rocked the Thai fighter on many occasions. Most recently, gong fu fighters train in either muay thai or san shou to catch up with the Thais. In the early 90s, the new generation of san shou fighters took an exhibition match against some pro-boxers and won 80% of their matches with hard throws or fierce kicking to the legs.

    Gong fu can be effective, but man does it take a LONG time to get there.

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    • #17
      Bullox

      I've seen about 9 fights like this guy is talking about if I get him right when I lived in HK. How many have you seen Tom? They lasted seconds. Bare hands all out and first guy to get hit got smashed by what came behind it. 10 minutes is play.

      Seen bunches of roof top gong sau too. Been in 5. Same deal. A real fight and seconds only. You fight some guy for real for 10 minutes? Your kung fu sucks or you mess with animal not a man. You're pacing yourself too. No way you or anyone go all out for 10 minutes. You try just hitting heavy bag all out for 10 minutes straight. Be puking in the bucket you will.

      Bullox to the excuse about Thai kickboxers. Chinese were bare handed and still got knocked out. People in the crowd yelling enter you dragons got shut up fast.

      Just because some guy got picked to go fight the Thai people doesn't mean anything. Lots of reasons those guys got picked and mostly money and politics stuff.

      You ever see films of those fights Tom? Chinese guys were scared and had big moon eyes. Lousy fighters with no heart. Look at them attack. Can't decide whether to run away or go at him. Thai have no problems at all after they see these guys can't hurt them even with bare hands.

      I give the Thai their due. They trained right way and Chinese guys were soft and full of folklore stuff. Too bad they didn't tell the Thai their myths before the fights

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      • #18
        Thaiboxers are the kings of stand up; muay thai is awesome!! Gong fu styles are great too.

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        • #19
          I dont think Miu Thai is any good against kung-fu

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          • #20
            Good for you.

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            • #21
              Cool

              Thai guys train the right way Tom. Many years ago kung fu guys were like that too. Mao ended it all. Only small little groups here and there of kung fu guys doing it right today. 10 - 15 more years and it will kind of all be gone. That's the natural way.

              I did 5 gong sau matches when I lived in HK. Won 3. Lost 1 pretty clear. Got knocked out so it was clear to me Almost got killed in the other. No match for the guy. He beat me up good before I was sent down. Lost 3 teeth, bunches of stitches in my mouth, broken nose, cracked some ribs and messed my shoulder up bad. Started kicking me in the head when I was down. Too much power, speed, skill and experience. Too much everything. I never saw anything after his first hit landed. No contest. If people hadn't dived on top of him he probably would have killed me.

              Average Thai guy beat the pants off good kung fu guy by today's standard. No contest. Average west boxer much harder to hit than good kung fu guy too. They're also tougher and put their punches together better. That's what I see in the ring. Can't say how a west boxer does in a street fight.

              Kung fu guys today still have better hand techniques than any Thai. That's no help because they can't use them when it's real. Most don't do it the right way. Soon as it's real hard contact they fall apart. Look like dog poop flailing around. Can't take getting hit hard at all. Bad training is the reason.
              It's never the style and always the man.

              Tameo you're no help at all. You post with a dummy picture and make a statement by itself. Why? You want to just argue to argue there's plenty of crazy guys and Pee-Pee Heads on this forum to do it with. Got anything positive to say about thread topic?

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              • #22
                Well i noticed that thai guys have very good low kickes that are pretty hard to counter...

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                • #23
                  Kicks

                  Originally posted by Tameo
                  Well i noticed that thai guys have verry good low kickes that are pretty hard to counter...
                  They sure are. Very heavy and mess up balance. Those guys got some hard shins too.

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                  • #24
                    Good points. There is a serious difference in "intensity" of training. Also, of all 400+ Kung Fu styles there are hardly any that are effective for combat. But, there are a few that are GREAT. For anyone looking for the effectiveness of some of the few Kung Fu styles look here: http://www.pachitanglang.com/mastersu/matute.htm

                    If you want to know which styles can be effective, read through this article, it'll give a brief description. http://crane.50megs.com/index6q.htm

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                    • #25
                      I heard that there are dozens of different Muay Thai "Championships". Which one is the official one? That is, what do you get if you fight in the great Stadiums like Lumpinee?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gong Sau
                        I've seen about 9 fights like this guy is talking about if I get him right when I lived in HK. How many have you seen Tom? They lasted seconds. Bare hands all out and first guy to get hit got smashed by what came behind it. 10 minutes is play.

                        Seen bunches of roof top gong sau too. Been in 5. Same deal. A real fight and seconds only. You fight some guy for real for 10 minutes? Your kung fu sucks or you mess with animal not a man. You're pacing yourself too. No way you or anyone go all out for 10 minutes. You try just hitting heavy bag all out for 10 minutes straight. Be puking in the bucket you will.

                        Just curious why your askin the good folks at Rossboxing how to slip punches if you've been in 5 free fight gong fu matches? Street fights aren't smart.

                        join a boxing gym.

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                        • #27
                          Its a sharing of martial knowledge....

                          Originally posted by Gong Sau
                          They sure are. Very heavy and mess up balance. Those guys got some hard shins too.
                          How about using TaiChi to neutralize the awesome kicks of Thai Boxing and their hard shins too.... remember they nuetralize tons of kicking power using only an ounches of force. Then as you enter the close range, due to the fact that KungFu is popular in deceiving hand techniques and unfamiliar to untrained eye of the Thai Boxing after using TaiChi he use the WingChun's 4 repititions of Chain Punching to Thai Boxer's glass head then he Follow up with Choy Li Fut's Swinging Fists target to the head of Thai Boxer and for the finishing moves is the ground fighting of GoCho (Ngo Cho Kun)

                          So you see when you heard he know's kungfu, you are questioned if what kungfu system will he used against you, and before you know it - he already apply that style so you are already too late.

                          An extremely wise kungfu fighter before the fight he use the following styles:
                          1. He fist show you the bow of a Northern Kungfu the Lohan for example. As long as you see that opening bow if you are a kungfu fighter too - you know what to counter that and you know their weak points.

                          2. But its only an opening of the Lohan but when he attacks it is a Southern Praying Mantis and while you hit several times, then you intended to counter him with your Thai Boxing.....

                          3. But he did not defend using Southern Praying Mantis instead he used the Art of TaiChi to Neutralize your Thai Boxing Counter.

                          4. Then he followup you again using the combination of Wingchun and Choylifut.

                          Note: you did not expect what type of KungFu system will he uses, and its a good reason for you to defeat.

                          That's the reason why of all martial arts "NO ONE BEATS KUNGFU"
                          In a KungFu Category, no one beats "THE ART OF SHAOLIN" cause they are more popular than the Taoist KungFu.
                          While when it comes to Martial Arts Weaponry, no one beats "THE TAOIST SWORD" especially the WuTang Sword.

                          But it depends upon a person who master his art, but when it comes to styles and systems - no one beats KUNGFU

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                          • #28
                            "But it depends upon a person who master his art, but when it comes to styles and systems - no one beats KUNGFU"

                            True that. No one beats Kung Fu.

                            Except just about anyone and everyone who's ever tried.......

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                            • #29
                              Why?

                              Originally posted by Tom Yum
                              Just curious why your askin the good folks at Rossboxing how to slip punches if you've been in 5 free fight gong fu matches? Street fights aren't smart.

                              join a boxing gym.
                              I joined a boxing club. Hardcore. My bad for not joining artsy fartsy club but it might work out ok for me. Most guys are there for real they want to make it to the Pros. I'm there for exercise and fun. Coaches don't have much time for me. Kung fu body in west boxing has me eating nasty leather a lot Some guys are helpful when I ask them to help me in sparring. Coaches told me to not bother bunches of the real serious guys. They say sparring with a lousy boxer like me is bad for their guys. I understand. I ask wherever I can for tips on stuff I can't get an answer to or much help in the gym. Got any tips for slipping?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Gong Sau
                                Got any tips for slipping?
                                Slipping is a defensive and tractical movement. Try a jab to the face while still out of attacking range to block vision of your movement. Then use step side footwork slightly off center line and immediatly punch. The slip is a transitional position or advancement, not an evading move.

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