Finding a school in Minnesota

[Szczepankiewicz]

Can anyone recommend a school in kung fu, tai chi or cardio kickboxing in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Spanky

[yenhoi]

https://www.mnkali.com

[iliqchuan]

school in Minnesota

Grand Master Gin Foon Mark is a famous Southern Mantis master who I believe currently teaches in Minnesota. He is one of the few teachers of this art, as it is rare to find an "open door" school for it. I have heard that his skill is Internationally First rate, he used to teach here in NY but moved out there some time ago. I would recommend looking him up, southern mantis is a great fighting art that come from the Hakka people of China. They were nomads known for their fighting ability, as it would obviously be a necessity for that lifestyle. Master Mark is the best I've heard of there, however there are also som pretty good wing chun schools I noticed when I was going to school out there. Hope that helps.

[Gong Sau]

MN Schools

Mark is old, diabetic, and worn out. His school is a collection of strange people who don't fight, haven't fought, and can't fight. SPM is mostly myth and hype. Very poor reputation in gong sau matches in HK and elsewhere. It's a rare art because it is weak in many areas so few bother with it. Better to find a decent MMA club that works with real contact.

[iliqchuan]

Gong Sau,
Are you from MN? That's unfortunate to hear Master Mark is going down hill.
His reputation from when he taught here in Manhatten's china town was quite good. I think perhaps you have been exposed to less than par southern praying mantis. I realize it is rare to find good fighters in a mostly "closed door" system but I know at least a few excellent practitioners exist, though mostly by reputaion, in Maylaysia, Australia and Puerto Rico. Also despite his age I've heard good things about Henry Poo Yee in New Jersey. Unfortunately most of the reputable guys, like many masters, won't spar or touch hands (sticky hands) with anyone outside their school. So unless someone good competes, we may never know. But as for the system itself, like most "small frame" arts many times it's rare to find people who can generate power with the movements, but I feel that those who can will have a formidable fighting art.

[Gong Sau]

Spm

No man is immortal. Mark and Yee need no defenders. They did their thing well in their time. Both are not pure SPM. That's one point. SPM can't work on its own. Doubt it? In HK SPM is not highly thought of. Lousy record in gong sau. Where are the SPM Masters in the 10 Tigers of the South or North of China? There aren't any. Name the Lei Tai champions that were SPM. There aren't any. Name the great SPM fighters from 1980 to now. That's only 20 years. Who are they? Who did they fight of note? That covers HK and the Chinese mainland. What proof is there that SPM is not as I say? SPM is not even its right name. Closed Door is an excuse not an explanation. All styles are closed door to some degree. Masters and Sifu that only touch hands with their own are hiding in fear. Rigged game when it's Sifu against Todi. Todi must lose in their own mind. Masters and Sifu that don't cross hands with others of their rank outside their style are hiding in fear. SPM is small because it has many weaknesses not because it is exclusive. Quakers are small because they are exclusive. Believe the myths and folklore if you want.

[iliqchuan]

Gong Sau,
I completely agree with you about masters who will not touch hands. If you are refering to the Hakka art's origin, and the fact the it was named SPM to "hide" its origins I believe I know what your saying, unless your refering to something else. In general, I don't make judjements about styles, only the practitioners I come in contact with. And I have encountered at least a few who can apply the system effectively, however as you pointed out about Mark and Yee none of those I have encountered have studied only SPM. The same is true with most internal/external guys, the majority can't use hsin yi and bagua but I've met some awesome fighters. I understand what you are saying, but I am not ready to write of the system, there are alot of good attributes about it. But I don't study it for a reason. I study with a Sifu who, like me will touch hands with anyone. I am not much on b.s. either, I just have seen enough not to underestimate it. And I train with alot of different practitioners so I can't afford to underestimate anyone. As for kung-fu in Minnesota, that is the only "world renown" Master I know of there, if you know someone better, cool. If the question had been about learning to fight well in a short period, I would have suggested wrestling, boxing or kickboxing. It's good to have someone ready to cut through the b.s. I understand and agree with alot of what you are saying but I think you can see my point as well.

[Gong Sau]

Spm

I don't say SPM is useless. Just that it can't be the only stuff there. I used to know some Wong Yook Gong SPM people. I know a little of what SPM can and can't do. I don't put it down just say what I have seen what I know from doing. Lung Yi and Bak Mei don't work well alone. So so record in gong sau. Not as good as Califo, Hung Ga, Wing Tsun, but better than SPM and many others. Lung Yi and Bak Mei together is much better. That's what I do. First Lung Yi for power and courage to strike. Bak Mei for smaller moves stuff. Sneaky. The choices were made for me not by me. Now it doesn't matter. Adults don't fight much at all. People in America are sold on the hype of SPM. Hype is all it is. No such thing as the greatest style. Man is still the one who must fight. BJJ is going the same way with claims of being the style. Doesn't work too good alone. Muay Thai kickboxing fills in most of the gaps. Same deal all through history if you get the honest answer. Never heard of a good fighter being just one style. One style was more obvious but there are always other things. With adults it can't be too much about fighting and is more business than concerns with the best in a fight. Doesn't matter since people do what they want. It's not life or death so no real worries about what's real and what's hype. Social club more than military camp and that's cool.

[Tim Mousel]

Two great schools in Minneapolis are Rick Faye's Minnesota Kali Group and Greg Nelson's school - http://www.mmaacombatzone.com/

They are awesome martial artists and great guys. Can't go wrong there!

Tim

[Gong Sau]

Tim's Post

Tim posted the answer to the question of where to find a good school in MN. No need to consider SPM.

[hungmei]

Gong sau's got it wrong

By way of brief introduction: 30 years training Hung Ga (Closed Door Disciple of the current Grandmaster and former Chief Instructor of the Chinese Free Masons), 25 years concurrent training in Kwong Sai Jook Lum Tong Long Pai (Southern Praying Mantis) under a former disciple of Grandmaster Gin Foon Mark.
I have trained in Kwong Sai Jook Lum Tong Long Pai concurrent with Hung Gar. Unfortunately, the Jook Lum system was largely controlled by Lum Sang and after his death Gin Foon Mark, the best of his 3rd family disciples. My teacher was highly proficient in the SPM he learned from Grandmaster Mark, and he'd bounce you, gong sau, right off the wall with his Jook Lum alone. My other chow gar teacher was a disciple of the still living Grandmaster Ip Shui. He too would knock the spit out of you with his mantis skills. I would not devote 25 years of my life on a system based on "myth and hype." I suggest you get a clue.

[RuskiRonin]

Gong Sau matches and all those stories are nice but dont judge a whole art by them if they are even reliable at all. rely on what is now.
imo SPM is a great gung-fu style. its very similar to wingchun from what ive seen and its very combat applicable which i cant say for many gung-fu schools that teach in a shitty way. SPM unlike Northern Mantis doesnt look like a human immitating a mantis ( northen style looks like this ). the wingchun organization im in usually does seminars including other groups, and a SPM group is one of them, so i've seen their teacher and i was very impressed. among their group we also train with an Arnis group and a White-Crane Gung-Fu group.
here's their site, theres an english version, take a loook :

SPM Website

[iliqchuan]

Hello,
I've never been much on this style vs. that or whataver. But I have seen guys who fight quite well with SPM. Its nice to have a practitioner shed a little light on it.

[KShafer]

MAs rundown in Twin Cities

Hi Spanky,

Here is a couple of suggestions:

First, as far as Southern Praying Mantis goes, I'd go with Tom Lee & Pete Holmes group (if they are still active). Mr. Holmes in particular was very hard core about his training. There teacher also lives in the Twin Cities, Mr. Chin, but it would not be proper manners to approach him...just track down Mr. Holmes or Mr. Lee. You can probably find there current contact info through RISING SUN MARTIAL ARTS SUPPLY, which is over in St. Paul (in the yellow pages). In fact, Rising Sun was always my first place to go when I was looking for a particular martial art in the Twin Cities Metro area--they were always on top of who was new in town and what they were doing.

If you are looking for tai chi, there is the Twin Cities Tai Chi Studio (www.tctaichi.com)---they have everything from self defense/cardio kickboxing (eclectisis) to Northern Praying Mantis, Pa Kua, Yang Tai Chi, Hsing I and Liu Ho Pa Fa (Water Boxing; lesser known internal style) as well as all kinds of qigong; definitely worth checking out!

There is also Pekiti Tirsia, with Mr. Mike O'Melia, and Inayan Eskrima, with Mr. Chris McWethy (teaches at Warrior's Cove school in St. Louis Park & Eagan).

Mr. Rick Faye and Mr. Greg Nelson are both very impressive, and they have enough material to keep you busy for decades to come, so I would certainly second Mr. Mousel's referral.

I used to live in Minneapolis and still get up there from time to time, so this info is pretty current (other than the SPM; I didn't pursue that myself; not a knock on it cauz' it impressed me, just wasn't suited to my body type, etc.)

It all depends on what suits you and what your goals are with the martial arts, or do you want fighting skills only?

Best of luck!

Ken

[SOCOMSASGsG9]

reply to gong sau

i was kinda disturbed by what you said about southern mantis being innefective. heres my take on the subject. i have been taking mantis for 1 year now, and i think its great. how long have you been taking mantis, gong sau? have you ever seen it in action, or are you talking about rumors? i have sparred with people who take karate, and i usually win, and heres why. a system is only as good as the person who teaches it, and the person who learns it. you cannot generalize SPM as being innefective untill you have studdied it, and compared it with other systems. i know karate and tea kwon do practitioners who are excelent, and those who are not, but its always the same style. like wise i have heard people bash tai chi for not being effective, but in my year of learning tai chi, i have found alot of usefull application. so again i say study mantis, and then judge it.

im sorry that was long, but i hope you saw somthing of value in my post.