Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[Garland]

Man I love the amount of testosterone in this place. It's like I'm drowning only I'm going down beating my own chest.

You "gangstaz" need to realize that me saying combatitive tai chi is like saying, "I kicked someone."

How did I kick them? Where did I kick them? What kick did I use?

You guys are such tools. Go play with your legos and try not to fall down off the short bus.

M'kay...so what you're saying is I need to be more specific. Okay, I kicked mr. Tai Chi in the midsection, Thai style round kick. He went no mas.

And for future reference;
I'm not a gangsta and... I ain't a playa...I just crush alot.

You go down on who... with who beating off on your chest?

[MuayThaiFighter]

COMBATIVE TAI CHI?
okay...so...what is it, tai chi with a 9?
****, okay, yeah THAT may work.
but the rest of that flowery, push the air shit won't help anybody, anywhere, in a combative situation.
Say what you will, but Combat Tai Chi is a fucking oxymoron. (and not the type of moron who pops O.C. har har har)

yours truly,
bunch o' fuckwitz.

Again I agree with Garland.

Combat Tai Chi is a fucking oxymoron.

So true,because Tai Chi can't be combative,it makes no sense.Pushing air is not the same as hitting something(like heavy bag,kicking shields,focus mitts etc.) or someone.To be a combative martial arts you have to know what it's like to get hit and how to actually punch and kick someone.In a real situation you're not going to be punching or kicking air.

I know people will say well hitting heavy bag,kicking shields,and focus mitts aren't same as hitting someone either, so before anyone can say that,I will tell you I know it's not same but at least you're getting used to punching and kicking something and working on both proper and effective technique and with power all at same time.

All Tai Chi is about is proper breathing techniques, focus, concentration, keeping fit and healthy but has nothing to do with self-defense for this reason it's good for both young and old people and is the reason why the majority of people who do different forms of Tai Chi are old people.

[MuayThaiFighter]

Tai Chi is useless even if an attacker is close enough to punch a Tai Chi practicioner, because stopping and defending an attacker with those techniques is impossible it's as effective as someone trying to light fireworks from 20 feet away.

[jubaji]

Man I love the amount of testosterone in this place. .

Thank goodness we have you to balance it out with all your estrogen!

[jubaji]

Again I agree with Garland.

Combat Tai Chi is a fucking oxymoron.

So true,because Tai Chi can't be combative,it makes no sense.Pushing air is not the same as hitting something(like heavy bag,kicking shields,focus mitts etc.) or someone.To be a combative martial arts you have to know what it's like to get hit and how to actually punch and kick someone.In a real situation you're not going to be punching or kicking air.

I know people will say well hitting heavy bag,kicking shields,and focus mitts aren't same as hitting someone either, so before anyone can say that,I will tell you I know it's not same but at least you're getting used to punching and kicking something and working on both proper and effective technique and with power all at same time.

All Tai Chi is about is proper breathing techniques, focus, concentration, keeping fit and healthy but has nothing to do with self-defense for this reason it's good for both young and old people and is the reason why the majority of people who do different forms of Tai Chi are old people.

Have you considered the possibility that you don't know what the **** you are talking about?

[Sircnay]

Again I agree with Garland.

Combat Tai Chi is a fucking oxymoron.

So true,because Tai Chi can't be combative,it makes no sense.Pushing air is not the same as hitting something(like heavy bag,kicking shields,focus mitts etc.) or someone.To be a combative martial arts you have to know what it's like to get hit and how to actually punch and kick someone.In a real situation you're not going to be punching or kicking air.

I know people will say well hitting heavy bag,kicking shields,and focus mitts aren't same as hitting someone either, so before anyone can say that,I will tell you I know it's not same but at least you're getting used to punching and kicking something and working on both proper and effective technique and with power all at same time.

All Tai Chi is about is proper breathing techniques, focus, concentration, keeping fit and healthy but has nothing to do with self-defense for this reason it's good for both young and old people and is the reason why the majority of people who do different forms of Tai Chi are old people.

I give up. You're like a moth flying into the light.

[MuayThaiFighter]

What I'm surprised to hear .

It's not until I first started coming to these forums awhile ago now that I knew that to this day there are still suckers out there convinced that Tai Chi is a real martial arts and can be used for self-defense. I thought people in this century would have by now come to realise that Tai Chi is nothing more then a breathing exercise and good for focus and that's it nothing more. The only reason Tai Chi is still practiced is because of its exercise on breathing,focus,health benefits and because it is part of Chinese history,most orientals don't want to forget their history of the martial arts of their country.

[chris davis 200]

oh jeez - tell me we havnt come full circle with this rubbish argument AGAIN!!!

I will now repost what i did at the start of this stupid thread! Highlighting some things you should begin to UNDERSTAND and not just head for the tiered old - 'tai chi is just forms' 'tai chi is just for health' RUBBISH!

please actually learn about an art before making assumptions!

I agree that 'in general' the Art of tai chi is not practiced for self defence. But the complete art is a definate fighting art.

Here is some info for you.

Quote:
I can not imagine how an art with nothing but forms can be useful on street.


This is a completely incorrect statement.

The process of learning to fight in Tai chi goes like this:

Form work = this teaches you alignment of your skeletal and tendon structure, This is scientifically proven to provide more power than the segmented muscular system of external arts. Tendons have huge amounts of potential energy when put under tension they can then release this force. Form work also teaches you about rooting, balance and basic foot work.

Single/ double and freeform push hands = This teaches you the listening skill thatis used in tai chi fighting. this skill is used to follow your opponents movement. It allows you to recieve punches of any power easily via redirection, yeilding and relaxation.It also teaches you about application of force, pre-emptive striking, Chin Na / throwing techniques, attacking vital points etc etc. This is the first step towards free fighting. you also learn Da lou which teaches slipping and escaping an attack.

Free sparring / fighting = after some time of Pushing hands/ feet. and training in the power generation, you will move to free sparring (correction should read FIGHTING) which includes, kicking, punching, palm strikes, elbows, shoulders, knees, head butts, throwing, locking, point striking etc etc.

After some time you do this full contact. but because you are so sensetive to your opponents movement you rarely get too hurt (unless they unload a powerful punch into your ribs breaking one as happend to me!)

This may seem like a long process but can be achieved withing a few years if dedicated.

It produces a very different and highly effective fighter, that is very mobile, highly adaptable and has the ability to punch with huge power (due to the fact that the entire skelital structure is behind every strike!)

So as you can see - the art is fairly complete and not JUST FORMS!

Admittadley it will be hard to find a teacher with the knowledge to teach all this. But this is the real art - not the yoga like shite you see some old biddy doing in the park!
Cheers
Chris

MTF - If you are serious and would like to be shown some Tai Chi Chuan then i will gladley meet up, should you ever be in the UK, for a friendly exchange.

No challange just a demonstration of Tai Chi Chuan as a combative art. Then after seeing it you can make an REAL comparrison!

In the mean time i will try to get some footage of me applying some Tai Chi Chuan in a combative sense. Bearing in mind it is not my main art but hey will give it a go!

Chris

[chris davis 200]

In addition ...

Prior to the Chinese revolution and the coming to power of the Chinese Communist party Tai chi was very rarely only practiced for health it was one of the most respected martial arts in the China.

It is a fairly modern Phenomena brought about mainly by the communists as the national exercise of China.

This exercise only resembles tai chi in name. nothing more – even the forms are not performed in the same manner!!

Chris

[jubaji]

It's not until I first started coming to these forums awhile ago now that I knew that to this day there are still suckers out there convinced that Tai Chi is a real martial arts and can be used for self-defense. I thought people in this century would have by now come to realise that Tai Chi is nothing more then a breathing exercise and good for focus and that's it nothing more. The only reason Tai Chi is still practiced is because of its exercise on breathing,focus,health benefits and because it is part of Chinese history,most orientals don't want to forget their history of the martial arts of their country.

So, did this attitude come to you because you fought some folks who were really terrible, or did you just dream it up?


Btw, don't use the term "Oriental" for people. That's for furniture and stuff. People from Asia are Asian. Carpets and such are "Oriental".

[MuayThaiFighter]

oh jeez - tell me we havnt come full circle with this rubbish argument AGAIN!!!

I will now repost what i did at the start of this stupid thread! Highlighting some things you should begin to UNDERSTAND and not just head for the tiered old - 'tai chi is just forms' 'tai chi is just for health' RUBBISH!



MTF - If you are serious and would like to be shown some Tai Chi Chuan then i will gladley meet up, should you ever be in the UK, for a friendly exchange.

No challange just a demonstration of Tai Chi Chuan as a combative art. Then after seeing it you can make an REAL comparrison!

In the mean time i will try to get some footage of me applying some Tai Chi Chuan in a combative sense. Bearing in mind it is not my main art but hey will give it a go!

Chris

If I go to UK it's not to do Tai Chi,besides I have better things to do then waist my time learning something as pointless as Tai Chi.

Of course it would be a demonstration,because there is nothing challenging about Tai Chi and besides I wouldn't want to end up hurting you by using my Thai boxing while you use your Tai Chi.

I have tried Tai Chi a few times,it's boring as hell,more of an old man and old ladies martial arts type thing.

[MuayThaiFighter]

So, did this attitude come to you because you fought some folks who were really terrible, or did you just dream it up?


Btw, don't use the term "Oriental" for people. That's for furniture and stuff. People from Asia are Asian. Carpets and such are "Oriental".

Neither.It comes from doing forms in karate.I know Tai Chi is different from karate but katas are katas.

I have tried it a few times and saw how boring and useless it was.Besides it's only common sense that Tai Chi is not any good for self-defense and isn't meant for that.

[chris davis 200]

besides I have better things to do then waist my time learning something as pointless as Tai Chi.

ha ha ha.

Of course it would be a demonstration,because there is nothing challenging about Tai Chi and besides I wouldn't want to end up hurting you by using my Thai boxing while you use your Tai Chi.

As someone that has trained muay thai for a few years and now trains traditional Internal Chinese Systems (and personally i find them more effective) - i doubt i would be THAT hurt, I know muay thai, i know what it can and cant do. You keep thinking what you like though.

I have tried Tai Chi a few times,it's boring as hell,more of an old man and old ladies martial arts type thing.

That would be the yoga style standardised exersise then.

Bless!

I notice that you live in Vancouver, my teacher is sometimes over there teaching. If he is going over again i will let you know. Maybe you could meet up with him for a friendly exchange. Word of warning though - you may get hurt.

regards
Chris

[chris davis 200]

Neither.It comes from doing forms in karate.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

oh ..... the ..... hilarity ....... of .... it ....... all!!!!

I know Tai Chi is different from karate but katas are katas.

Tai chi doesn’t have any kata in the Karate sense of the word. It has forms and their meaning, execution and principle are worlds apart from Karate.

I think we have found the reason for your ignorance!

[MuayThaiFighter]

Form work = this teaches you alignment of your skeletal and tendon structure, This is scientifically proven to provide more power than the segmented muscular system of external arts. Tendons have huge amounts of potential energy when put under tension they can then release this force. Form work also teaches you about rooting, balance and basic foot work.

So what,doesn't prove it's good for fighting.

As far as rooting,balance and basic foot work, Muay Thai teaches that too.

Single/ double and freeform push hands = This teaches you the listening skill thatis used in tai chi fighting. this skill is used to follow your opponents movement. It allows you to recieve punches of any power easily via redirection, yeilding and relaxation.It also teaches you about application of force, pre-emptive striking, Chin Na / throwing techniques, attacking vital points etc etc. This is the first step towards free fighting. you also learn Da lou which teaches slipping and escaping an attack.


With the way Tai Chi is done there is no way you would be able to redirect a punch.How can it teach you application of force when it's all done striking air ? That makes no sense.The force in martial arts comes from hitting something or someone.

You honestly think push hand movements will be able to help you throw a person in a real situation? If you do you're living in a dream world.It's not that simple.Perhaps it'll work on an attacker if he just stands there in one place without resisting but that would never happen.

Use tai chi to hit my vital points and you can guarantee I will be smashing you to pieces or maybe even take you to ground and start pounding on you.

Free sparring / fighting = after some time of Pushing hands/ feet. and training in the power generation, you will move to free sparring (correction should read FIGHTING) which includes, kicking, punching, palm strikes, elbows, shoulders, knees, head butts, throwing, locking, point striking etc etc.

Sounds like real fighting the way you describe it but from what I've seen of Tai Chi it's not.

Any punches to head,upper cuts,hooks to body and head,chokes,arm bars?

What you learn is important but it's also how you learn it,if you guys are using it by standing in front of each other and exchanging techniques using push hands most of the time instead of moving around like a boxing or kickboxing match then how you learn it is pointless.



After some time you do this full contact. but because you are so sensetive to your opponents movement you rarely get too hurt (unless they unload a powerful punch into your ribs breaking one as happend to me!)

This may seem like a long process but can be achieved withing a few years if dedicated.

It produces a very different and highly effective fighter, that is very mobile, highly adaptable and has the ability to punch with huge power (due to the fact that the entire skelital structure is behind every strike!)

So as you can see - the art is fairly complete and not JUST FORMS!

But a high percent of it is forms.

Admittadley it will be hard to find a teacher with the knowledge to teach all this. But this is the real art - not the yoga like shite you see some old biddy doing in the park!
Cheers
Chris



Well despite what you say,whether it's true or not,why learn something that takes years to learn when you can learn how to fight within a year or less ?

Learning self-defense can no doubt take years to be proficient at but it shouldn't take years to be able to learn alot of effective techniques,after all not everyone wants to be a martial arts instructor or cares to compete.

Karate which I did for 12yrs. does alot of forms,I now do Pankration which I've been in now for 7yrs.I had learnt more my first year of Pankration then I did when doing karate forms for 12yrs.That has got to say something about katas.