Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[Garland]

Garland, how does your wingchun training mingle with the rest of your stand up work?

I've never studied the art, but am curious as to its effectiveness in closing the gap to the clinch range and its hand techniques.

Seems like wingchun stance and set up teaches fighters to hit on the move, which is not easy for stand up fighters to develop. That combined with boxing and you'd be all over the other guy.

The wing chun I trained was part of the Jun Fan part of the JKD curriculum my instructor taught. His idea was that in order to learn Jun Fan Gung Fu, you should know a little about the art that influenced it.

Basic things that really stuck were some of the trapping, I didn't pick up too much of the chi sao sticky hands stuff, and the stances are great for working out your quads...(wide, impractical for fighting, but goddamn, excellent isometric conditioning)

Counter punching, split entries, the lop sao, the gum sao (which I change up to a modified hook when I box sometimes) and the battle punch are the highlights of the art for me. The kick checking sometimes comes out when I spar for kali (sometimes even in stick and knife sparring, we used FIST gear and rattan sticks, training blades), because the jeet tek and nao tek are somewhat similar to the sipa type kicks used in panatucan boxing...

[Sircnay]

Silly Garland, that IS Chi.

Chi isn't some mystical thing. It's body mechanics. You're silly.

[chris davis 200]

at the recent bullshido throwdown some low level Tai Chi Guys were there, now i dont know them at all and would not want to put my backing behind anyone i dont know, but here are some comments on how they faired in ground fighting rules and Vale Tudo ruled bouts.

The next fight was against an older Tai-Chi guy at grappling. He was actually quite good, but I managed not to get tapped out.....While he was in my guard, he picked me up and slammed me, which is why my neck hurts like a mofo now! Still, at least I didn't get tapped.

was very impressed with how violent the tai chi guys were, that was a bit of a shock.

maybe its not just the yoga you all know and love ......

cheers
chris

[Garland]

Silly Garland, that IS Chi.

Chi isn't some mystical thing. It's body mechanics. You're silly.

what about all the "meridian", "chakra", internal force, intrinsic energy crap that TMA guys always preach???
You might have a realistic sense of the word, but it's simply your educated interpretation, you figured it out, gold star for you...now if YOU would simply educate your peers, we'd all be alot happier, the TMA guys and those that have actual credibility behind their fighting systems.

[Garland]

at the recent bullshido throwdown some low level Tai Chi Guys were there, now i dont know them at all and would not want to put my backing behind anyone i dont know, but here are some comments on how they faired in ground fighting rules and Vale Tudo ruled bouts.






maybe its not just the yoga you all know and love ......

cheers
chris

or...more likely, they either cross train, or are just using their body strength as anyone else would do in that same scenario, with or without martial arts or fight training of ANY kind.

Who knows, maybe the wrestled in highschool...or used to play football, that shit helps too...you never know.

[Sircnay]

what about all the "meridian", "chakra", internal force, intrinsic energy crap that TMA guys always preach???
You might have a realistic sense of the word, but it's simply your educated interpretation, you figured it out, gold star for you...now if YOU would simply educate your peers, we'd all be alot happier, the TMA guys and those that have actual credibility behind their fighting systems.

Some of that stuff is actually applicable. Internal force and intrinsic energy is just another fancy schmancy word for using the natural alignment of your body as a leverage point.

Everything else is just mental states of mind. I mean I use my "chi" when I"m sparring and someone is approaching me and I give a strong yell. It's technically my "chi" holding them back but we all know that it's really just a state of mind my opponent can't get over.

[jubaji]

fear us you worms!

Who knows, maybe the wrestled in highschool...or used to play football, that shit helps too...you never know.

Mwahahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Wrestling rules!


(Wow, this soju stuff is good!)

[chris davis 200]

or you never know .... maybe your wrong about tai chi??????

If your ever in the UK ..... come see me ... not a challenge , just would like to give you an impression of what Traditional Internal Martial arts feel like.

and on that note i bow out.

Happy arguing!

Chris

[jubaji]

If your ever in the UK ..... come see me ... not a challenge , just would like to give you an impression of what Traditional Internal Martial arts feel like.

This is not a dating service!

[chris davis 200]

ha ha ha!

that was pretty funny!!!

[Garland]

Some of that stuff is actually applicable. Internal force and intrinsic energy is just another fancy schmancy word for using the natural alignment of your body as a leverage point.

Everything else is just mental states of mind. I mean I use my "chi" when I"m sparring and someone is approaching me and I give a strong yell. It's technically my "chi" holding them back but we all know that it's really just a state of mind my opponent can't get over.

Yeah, being the psychological warfare you inflict with the yell, kip or whatever.... I mean, I'd probably stop for a split second if somebody screamed like a girl if I was on the offense, or even started laughing or crying manicly...
And...internal energy and chi, ki, imply something much more than conventional leverage and mechanics, it implies that there is something more going on.
Kiajustu crap will get suckas beat down...iaaaaaaahhhhhh........of course, I'd do it just to be funny, maybe after a fight or before, but it's the same as striking a pose. Hell, I've fought out of a TKD stance before just to get a laugh.

[SimonM]

what about all the "meridian", "chakra", internal force, intrinsic energy crap that TMA guys always preach???

Oi! Don't be tarring all us TMA guys with the same brush. I practice Black Dragon Kung Fu supplimented with Hung Gar and Wing Chun. All three are "TMA" and my Sifu has NEVER mentioned Chi. As I said there are rational explainations for the chi phenomena; those with applications to fighting can be learned by practice like any other Martial Art skill. They are no more a magical force than a hip-toss is - 100 years ago chi was the most logical explaination for why certain techniques work. We know more now. It doesn't mean one has to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Edit: Taiji Quan when it is taught as a martial art is entirely about the redirection of force - much like Aikido. The person removes themselves from an appropriate vector for their opponent to attack into and trys to use the vector of force established by their aggressor to their advantage. No magic. Just solid bio-mechanics and an intuitive grasp of newtonian level physics.

[Garland]

Good. Another enlightened TMA guy. Now if you would just pass along what should, by now, be common logic....

[SimonM]

I'm trying but it's an uphill battle between the other TMA guys who assume I must be a low-skill know nothing because I don't believe in the Star Wars Force and the MMA guys who think I must be a low-skill know nothing hippy because I refuse to accept the natural superiority of NHB training and BJJ-MT cross-styling to all other martial art training processes / martial arts ever.

[chris davis 200]

I'm trying but it's an uphill battle between the other TMA guys who assume I must be a low-skill know nothing because I don't believe in the Star Wars Force and the MMA guys who think I must be a low-skill know nothing hippy because I refuse to accept the natural superiority of NHB training and BJJ-MT cross-styling to all other martial art training processes / martial arts ever.

welcome to my world!!!