Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[MuayThaiFighter]

You keep on saying people don’t know anything about Kung FU, but what do you know about other martial arts? From what I can tell not much. You keep talking about powerful secret techniques not shared to the public, have they been shared with you? What are they pray tell? Or are they just too lethal that you have been sworn to secrecy?

I may not know much about your particular style of KF but I now plenty about science, fighting, and the fact your lips are permanently stuck to that bong. There is now magic pill. You cannot sit for hours and meditate to make your foes simply disappear into a puff of smoke.

I have sparred several Wing Chun guys and believe me I haven’t been all that impressed. However their forms are quite impressive but I think the best use for them is in a disco club.
As for memory, all your training (techniques) really comes down to neuromuscular memorization because that will be all that can be used when the primitive mind takes over when the adrenaline hits and you become stressed when suddenly and violently attacked. Complicated moves and intricate techniques will be worthless.

You keep saying KF is Ultimate why? I never claim one MA is superior over an other. I may say some may be better for some things than others but it depends on the individual goals. My belief is when it comes to self-defense the simpler the better, the more direct the better. I think you no nothing of real fighting. I think you live in this little insulated (MA) world where science and truth cannot penetrate. You have been brain washed by the traditionalists to believe that complicated, intricate, secret, shrouded in mysticism methods of KF are more effective than everything else out there. You are naive to think this way. You are locked in a cave with no light and you don’t even now how ignorant some of the things you say really are.

Convinced????

"There is no magic pill. You cannot sit for hours and meditate to make your foes simply disappear into a puff of smoke."

I agree 100%

"However their forms are quite impressive but I think the best use for them is in a disco club."

Never thought of it this way and it is funny but so very true.All katas are show of techniques that look impressive but do shit for self-defense.

"Complicated moves and intricate techniques will be worthless."

That's for damn sure. The simplest and straight to point techniques are usually the most effective.

"My belief is when it comes to self-defense the simpler the better, the more direct the better. I think you no nothing of real fighting. I think you live in this little insulated (MA) world where science and truth cannot penetrate. You have been brain washed by the traditionalists to believe that complicated, intricate, secret, shrouded in mysticism methods of KF are more effective than everything else out there."

I agree with your belief with self-defense,because I too believe that.I agree he has been brain washed by the traditionalists.

"You are naive to think this way. You are locked in a cave with no light and you don’t even now how ignorant some of the things you say really are."

I agree he is ignorant.

[sherwinc]

You keep on saying people don’t know anything about Kung FU, but what do you know about other martial arts? From what I can tell not much. You keep talking about powerful secret techniques not shared to the public, have they been shared with you? What are they pray tell? Or are they just too lethal that you have been sworn to secrecy?

I may not know much about your particular style of KF but I now plenty about science, fighting, and the fact your lips are permanently stuck to that bong. There is now magic pill. You cannot sit for hours and meditate to make your foes simply disappear into a puff of smoke.

I have sparred several Wing Chun guys and believe me I haven’t been all that impressed. However their forms are quite impressive but I think the best use for them is in a disco club.
As for memory, all your training (techniques) really comes down to neuromuscular memorization because that will be all that can be used when the primitive mind takes over when the adrenaline hits and you become stressed when suddenly and violently attacked. Complicated moves and intricate techniques will be worthless.

You keep saying KF is Ultimate why? I never claim one MA is superior over an other. I may say some may be better for some things than others but it depends on the individual goals. My belief is when it comes to self-defense the simpler the better, the more direct the better. I think you no nothing of real fighting. I think you live in this little insulated (MA) world where science and truth cannot penetrate. You have been brain washed by the traditionalists to believe that complicated, intricate, secret, shrouded in mysticism methods of KF are more effective than everything else out there. You are naive to think this way. You are locked in a cave with no light and you don’t even now how ignorant some of the things you say really are.

Convinced????

You Sparr a fake wingchun opponent, cause a true wingchun is really hard to defeat in a close distance, and it is the reason why i have guts to learn that wingchun in order to add its 108 hand techniques unto my 55 chidianbun kungfu handtechniques, and not i am still searching ngochokuns kungfu additional hand techniques to my advantages.....

maybe you fight that wingchun and maintain that fight in a medium to long distance, its the wingchuns weakness, but if you use it to me, i still have my medium to long distance kungfu art like those of TaiChiChuan, AngKaKun, ChitChieeTongLongKun, TanTui(SpringLeg)KungFu, and ChangChuan KungFu.

KungFu style/system blends in all wheather distance fights..... combined all solid kungfu...


The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

CONVINCED?????

[Thai Bri]

This guy has not lost his onions.

He never friggin had any to begin with!!!!

CONVINCED!!

[MuayThaiFighter]

You Sparr a fake wingchun opponent, cause a true wingchun is really hard to defeat in a close distance, and it is the reason why i have guts to learn that wingchun in order to add its 108 hand techniques unto my 55 chidianbun kungfu handtechniques, and not i am still searching ngochokuns kungfu additional hand techniques to my advantages.....

maybe you fight that wingchun and maintain that fight in a medium to long distance, its the wingchuns weakness, but if you use it to me, i still have my medium to long distance kungfu art like those of TaiChiChuan, AngKaKun, ChitChieeTongLongKun, TanTui(SpringLeg)KungFu, and ChangChuan KungFu.

KungFu style/system blends in all wheather distance fights..... combined all solid kungfu...


The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

CONVINCED?????

Get a life bud,Thai Bri who always tried to get to me was no doubt a pain in the ass but personally you are beyond that you're just plain stupid and ignorant,at least he made more sense then you do.

If all non-kung fu arts do round house kicks and kung fu arts don't well what should that tell you? It tells me that round house kicks work and to not teach them is plain stupid.It also tells me that whatever style kung fu you are taking is a freaking joke. You wouldn't be able to block a muay thai round house kick,muay thai kicks for one are too fast to block for the average martial artist and second are more powerful.

You say that uppercuts,straight punches and hooks are easy to counter, I guess that means since you do Kung Fu you can beat any boxer like Mike Tyson, Hollyfield,Lewis etc.since they all do straight punches as well as hooks and uppercuts. Well all I have to say is I personally know you would lose against these guys and why?because their tournament fights are realistic,they fight until either their opponent gives up,or asked to stop fighting due to serious injury or simply gets knocked out.In Kung Fu you will never get that simply because your shit is useless and won't work for self-defense.

All those weird names of kung fu styles you say you know are confusing and too complicating to say if you're not chinese so I can just imagine how confusing your techniques maybe especially compared to other arts that do katas and are pointless.

The most effective techniques are the ones that are least complicating
and the ones that are straight to point but I guess if you do an art that doesn't do round house kicks and feels it is too easy to counter straight punches,hooks and upper cuts you really wouldn't know anything about learning straight to the point,effective techniques.

As everyone knows already I don't like katas but if I were to go back to any art that does practice kata it would probably be Goju Ryu karate again. No offense but your kung fu sounds like it sucks.

If there is no round house kicks,and I assume no straight punches,no uppercuts or hooks since according to you they are too easy to block then what exactly does your style teach? does it just teach finger jabs,some grabbing from up close,side kicks, knife hand chops and katas? becasue if that is all it teaches then I suggest you give it up and go do some other training.Does your art at least teach some grappling?,because it already shows it lacks in alot of ways as far as the stand up goes.

"The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

CONVINCED?????"

Why would anyone be convinced by a stupid statement like this that makes absolutely no sense ? especially when 99.99 % of all stand up styles have round house kicks,and straight punches.Even muay thai (known as the most deadly stand up art)has round house kicks except they are done differently from other styles since we use our shins instead of top of foot,and we also have straight punches like jabs,and right cross which is almost the same as reverse punch in karate however instead of punching from hips, in muay thai it is done from holding your hands close to your head which is more practical.

It is "Their" not Thier. Learn to spell.What the hell is a lung punch? didn't know it was possible to strike with your lungs. LOL .I know what you are trying to say but I suggest you learn how to spell before calling something crap although I agree that the way that punch is taught in arts like karate, punching from the hips is pointless.

The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

Whether you realize it or not or whether you want to believe it or not Muay Thai has a higher record of fight wins then any Kung Fu style and in Wing Chun they use their dummies to practice techniques but what good is practicing those techniques the way you do if you can't prove that kind of training really works.Also if Wing chung is really hard to be defeated in close quarters then why don't Wing Chung practictioners prove it? If their stuff really works and people are able to see proof of it then others will most likely want to add it to their arsenal of techniques, but the thing is you guys never prove it and I think the reason is because Wing Chung practitioners know that in reality their stuff won't work when put to sparring test.Other styles are willing to prove their stuff works although many fail to be able to prove anythng.Personally I think in close you guys could be taken down by a muay thai fighter or some grappler like those in jujitsu,judo,submission wrestling etc.

As once mentioned before by someone,your sticky hands won't do shit against someone in Muay Thai. I don't think it will work on a grappler who is also use to always fighting in close and it most definitely won't work on street either.

Although I don't care for karate as I once did,I would still have to say even a karate person would win against someone in Wing Chung.Heck even something as bad and lame as TKD would win over a Wing Chung practitioner.To know that there are still instructors collecting money off students like you who actually believe Wing Chung has any useful techniques is pretty scarey.Sad but true.

Any art or combat sport other then boxing that realies just on hands is pretty pointless as far as I am concerned. Boxing is great if you need to defend yourself in a club where there is not much space for moving around anyways,because in situations like that it would be impossible to kick to begin with and even if you could kick you wouldn't want to with all those beer spills you find in clubs and bars. A good boxer can knock someone out whether close up or if there is a little distance apart especially if the boxer has long arms.Wing Chung fighter would be useless in a real fight since all they know is close up fighting if they can even proove their stuff works.In a bar a person doesn't just stand there and stick his face out for you to hit him and chances are he is going to try and stop you from coming too close to him the only way you would manage too is if you know how to box and know some grappling.On the street however anything goes including kicks and if you don't practice how to kick how can you know to block one and if you can't throw a straight punch,hook or upper cuts chances are you don't know how to block them either,that's why from everything you have said about Wing Chung and Kung Fu I would have to say they are useless.

I can't speak for everyone but I think many people will agree with me on this one.

[Nothingness]

Any combat method will come to one thing for the test: one's mastery to use it effectively.

Straightforward training methods like MuayThai have easy ideas to grasp. Hence, training is just a matter of dilligence and physical prowness.

We are here often trapped into talking about "the best" combat method. No method is the best; its effectiveness depends one each individual practioner's mastery on the method.

However, one needs to keep in mind that WEIGHT (in sense of strengh or "li" in Chinese) still has the superior advantage given the similar level of mastery. Unless you have a far superior mastery in your method, subduing an opponent with much more weight is still a painful experience.

Slick methods like Taiji or Aikido, etc. are supposed to nullify the weight advantage through advance mastery in techniques.

If you have the size and power, it will be very hard to learn those "soft" methods. Why in earth would you give up your own advantage to gain an advantage that is really hard to train. In reality, realize your own posture then pick a training in a combat method that is most effective for you.

Pardon me to writer another useless thought . But hey, since we are in the mood for that, why not adding another one to rub one's nose.

I cant write any longer. I already wasted 10 min, a time that I could have used for training instead. Crap.

Dudes, just train. Then, when you hit that stupid guy who tries to rob you on the street, let us know. Alternatively, when you really can defeat a challenger, or you have enough balls to challenge someone and defeat him, then let us know.

[guy incognito]

Oh god thank you.That was an intelligent post.Well said.We can argue this is better than that till the cows come home but its pointless.Train hard and lets share some positive thoughs for a while please!

[DAT]

To the originator of this thread. If you want to learn more about Taiji research the "Book of Changes", I-Ching, The Tao, Five Elements and attaining wuji. Search these particular topics and you should understand the fundamentals, training goals and ultimate rewards of Taiji.

As far as self defense goes, I have to borrow from another forum member. I once asked about the amount of time needed to feel proficent in Aikido. His response was that he'd rather have a little knowledge of Karate rather than a little knowledge of Aikido. Knowing a little Aikido, he said, is like knowing a little brain surgery. His sentiments apply to Taiji and self defense. It's a very long path to proficient self defense in Taiji. And in my opinion there are a lot of the pieces of the puzzle absent from Taiji in the west.

If you want fairly quick self defense in an internal art I'd go with Hsing-I. An old Chinese proverb reads, Taiji is a lifetime of study, Hsing-I kills in one year.

Oh and by the way all this is predicated on whether you believe in the concept of "Chi".

[IronFist]

If you really want to know how effective Tai Chi can be, spend 4 weeks with Sifu James Mcneill at the little nine heavens school.

Here is a good counterexample:

taijiworld.com

he teaches the real stuff and practices full contact sparring with his students...

[Nothingness]

Taiji could be really good, but the learning process is a long time (think of 10+ years). I think you should also check your body frame. If you are more built into physical prowness and not flexibility, you'd be better off learning the "hard" methods. It is true that "soft" can defeat "hard". However, if you are "hard" enough, you can defeat the "soft".

If you still meet any "soft" methods' practicioners who insist that they can beat any "hard", tell them to fight a BEAR . See how hard can beat soft .

[darrianation]

You Sparr a fake wingchun opponent, cause a true wingchun is really hard to defeat in a close distance, and it is the reason why i have guts to learn that wingchun in order to add its 108 hand techniques unto my 55 chidianbun kungfu handtechniques, and not i am still searching ngochokuns kungfu additional hand techniques to my advantages.....

maybe you fight that wingchun and maintain that fight in a medium to long distance, its the wingchuns weakness, but if you use it to me, i still have my medium to long distance kungfu art like those of TaiChiChuan, AngKaKun, ChitChieeTongLongKun, TanTui(SpringLeg)KungFu, and ChangChuan KungFu.

KungFu style/system blends in all wheather distance fights..... combined all solid kungfu...


The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

CONVINCED?????

I'd rather know 5 techniques that I could apply effectively than a 108 techniques added to a 1000 others that you do that may look good but cannot be applied effectively.

[guy incognito]

Old proverb
Fear not the man who knows a thousand techniques and has praticed each one once.But the man who knows one technique and has practiced it a thousand times.

[sherwinc]

I'd rather know 5 techniques that I could apply effectively than a 108 techniques added to a 1000 others that you do that may look good but cannot be applied effectively.

My KungFu Instructor doesnt teach next technique if you could not master your previous technique, you should master your technique a thousand times before learning next technique or alphabets

this until i reach many techniques of different branches of KungFu

as the saying goes:
absorb what is useful
reject what is useless
add especially what is your own

and i finally master it all that i previously learned for almost 10years

how about you? you only master 5 techniques in 10 years????

and i did apply it all that i learned to spar those black belt karate and tae kwon do opponents to the ratio of 2:22 and i use all of that i learned....

as i said before, my Instructor doesnt teach another technique if you could not master or perfect just one movement......

the more the beautiful the movement is the more it is deadly.....

i hope you get what i mean.... in each movement there are 6 to more applications in each, but there is still more up to 10 applications in each movement or alphabets if you only continue practice gradually and in time to time, achievement....

CONVINCED??????

[sherwinc]

Get a life bud,Thai Bri who always tried to get to me was no doubt a pain in the ass but personally you are beyond that you're just plain stupid and ignorant,at least he made more sense then you do.

If all non-kung fu arts do round house kicks and kung fu arts don't well what should that tell you? It tells me that round house kicks work and to not teach them is plain stupid.It also tells me that whatever style kung fu you are taking is a freaking joke. You wouldn't be able to block a muay thai round house kick,muay thai kicks for one are too fast to block for the average martial artist and second are more powerful.

You say that uppercuts,straight punches and hooks are easy to counter, I guess that means since you do Kung Fu you can beat any boxer like Mike Tyson, Hollyfield,Lewis etc.since they all do straight punches as well as hooks and uppercuts. Well all I have to say is I personally know you would lose against these guys and why?because their tournament fights are realistic,they fight until either their opponent gives up,or asked to stop fighting due to serious injury or simply gets knocked out.In Kung Fu you will never get that simply because your shit is useless and won't work for self-defense.

All those weird names of kung fu styles you say you know are confusing and too complicating to say if you're not chinese so I can just imagine how confusing your techniques maybe especially compared to other arts that do katas and are pointless.

The most effective techniques are the ones that are least complicating
and the ones that are straight to point but I guess if you do an art that doesn't do round house kicks and feels it is too easy to counter straight punches,hooks and upper cuts you really wouldn't know anything about learning straight to the point,effective techniques.

As everyone knows already I don't like katas but if I were to go back to any art that does practice kata it would probably be Goju Ryu karate again. No offense but your kung fu sounds like it sucks.

If there is no round house kicks,and I assume no straight punches,no uppercuts or hooks since according to you they are too easy to block then what exactly does your style teach? does it just teach finger jabs,some grabbing from up close,side kicks, knife hand chops and katas? becasue if that is all it teaches then I suggest you give it up and go do some other training.Does your art at least teach some grappling?,because it already shows it lacks in alot of ways as far as the stand up goes.

"The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

CONVINCED?????"

Why would anyone be convinced by a stupid statement like this that makes absolutely no sense ? especially when 99.99 % of all stand up styles have round house kicks,and straight punches.Even muay thai (known as the most deadly stand up art)has round house kicks except they are done differently from other styles since we use our shins instead of top of foot,and we also have straight punches like jabs,and right cross which is almost the same as reverse punch in karate however instead of punching from hips, in muay thai it is done from holding your hands close to your head which is more practical.

It is "Their" not Thier. Learn to spell.What the hell is a lung punch? didn't know it was possible to strike with your lungs. LOL .I know what you are trying to say but I suggest you learn how to spell before calling something crap although I agree that the way that punch is taught in arts like karate, punching from the hips is pointless.

The dis-advantages of a non-kungfu martial arts as i notice that all of the stupid non-kungfu martial arts use roundhouse kick, punch with cross, hook, uppercut, straight(reverse and lung punch) ARE ALL EASY TO COUNTER and its my FAVORITE TO COUNTER TO THIER DIS-ADVANTAGES.....

Whether you realize it or not or whether you want to believe it or not Muay Thai has a higher record of fight wins then any Kung Fu style and in Wing Chun they use their dummies to practice techniques but what good is practicing those techniques the way you do if you can't prove that kind of training really works.Also if Wing chung is really hard to be defeated in close quarters then why don't Wing Chung practictioners prove it? If their stuff really works and people are able to see proof of it then others will most likely want to add it to their arsenal of techniques, but the thing is you guys never prove it and I think the reason is because Wing Chung practitioners know that in reality their stuff won't work when put to sparring test.Other styles are willing to prove their stuff works although many fail to be able to prove anythng.Personally I think in close you guys could be taken down by a muay thai fighter or some grappler like those in jujitsu,judo,submission wrestling etc.

As once mentioned before by someone,your sticky hands won't do shit against someone in Muay Thai. I don't think it will work on a grappler who is also use to always fighting in close and it most definitely won't work on street either.

Although I don't care for karate as I once did,I would still have to say even a karate person would win against someone in Wing Chung.Heck even something as bad and lame as TKD would win over a Wing Chung practitioner.To know that there are still instructors collecting money off students like you who actually believe Wing Chung has any useful techniques is pretty scarey.Sad but true.

Any art or combat sport other then boxing that realies just on hands is pretty pointless as far as I am concerned. Boxing is great if you need to defend yourself in a club where there is not much space for moving around anyways,because in situations like that it would be impossible to kick to begin with and even if you could kick you wouldn't want to with all those beer spills you find in clubs and bars. A good boxer can knock someone out whether close up or if there is a little distance apart especially if the boxer has long arms.Wing Chung fighter would be useless in a real fight since all they know is close up fighting if they can even proove their stuff works.In a bar a person doesn't just stand there and stick his face out for you to hit him and chances are he is going to try and stop you from coming too close to him the only way you would manage too is if you know how to box and know some grappling.On the street however anything goes including kicks and if you don't practice how to kick how can you know to block one and if you can't throw a straight punch,hook or upper cuts chances are you don't know how to block them either,that's why from everything you have said about Wing Chung and Kung Fu I would have to say they are useless.

I can't speak for everyone but I think many people will agree with me on this one.

the truth is, i never spar any Muay Thai here in my place cause there's no Muay Thai here, only Black Belt Karate in many branches/schools, Black Belt Tae Kwon Do's and they all in the ration of 2:22. It is easy to defeat if until now Karate and Tae Kwon Do fighting process is still the same..... and if they dont change, still Karate and Tae Kwon Do are useless.... including Boxing are also useless cause until now they only got 6 punches and nothing more......

therefore i conclude boxing of Muay Thai is stupid while its kicking moves are awesome and lethal......

..... but not enough to defeat if you only know 2 or more combined KungFu branches...... be sure to master all your previously learned before learning next alphabets of KungFu......

CONVINCED?????

[sherwinc]

I'd rather know 5 techniques that I could apply effectively than a 108 techniques added to a 1000 others that you do that may look good but cannot be applied effectively.

When fighting, i use 108 +55 +25 +some = not using my mind but i am depending on my StickingHands, WalkingHands, PushingHands is all that dictates me(bridge forearm) and not my mind(brain and eyes) in fighting ..... and this is the only secret for me why i apply all those many techniques that i learned.

be sure to master step by step, master previously learned before attempt to learn next alphabet moves.....

learn to switch from one kungfu to another system of kungfu depending upon the distance of the opponent......

CONVINCED????????

Note:
i have a very strict instructor, he doesnt teach us next technique if you could not master your previous technique.....


how about.....

Originally Posted by darrianation
I'd rather know 1000 techniques that I could apply effectively than a 5 technique added to a 0 others that you do that may look good but cannot be applied effectively.

CONVINCED???????

[MuayThaiFighter]

[QUOTE=guy incognito]Old proverb
Fear not the man who knows a thousand techniques and has praticed each one once.But the man who knows one technique and has practiced it a thousand times.[/QUOTE

Good proverb and so true.