Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[yentao]

I'm in the east and saw some half internal half external such as Ngo Cho Kun that fits the combination of the two perfectly. You'll find a lot of system here with such combination.

No problem in the mechanics of the combination as long it is well performed. Lohan looks good with it as well.

About the west, can you be more specific? What style are you referring?

[chris davis 200]

I think you mis understand me - The combination styles are normally very very good and effectivley combine internal and exterenal concepts.

I particularly like combo styles like, white crane & pak mai.

BUT ..

I am refering to schools, that teach - for instance, Karate along with Tai chi.

this does not work, the Tai chi becomes Karateised. None of the concepts of tai chi are retained.

Thanks

Chris

[tai-gip]

but the internal is realy only training your mental thought during any given move .its focusing/feeling the energy.flowing with it

dont think it realy matters how you wave your hands around as long as your thinking the right way

[chris davis 200]

but the internal is realy only training your mental thought during any given move .its focusing/feeling the energy.flowing with it

Uhh -- ok!

Have you ever done internal arts?

The internal aspect is that there is internal alignment of the skeletal structure behind the movements. also that the power source is tendons not muscle (obviously some muscle) This is also an internal reference.

people that think internal arts are effective because of chi and thought powers do not understand the very basics of Internal arts. They work with or without chi. Chi and energy is the Very highest level of practice.

dont think it realy matters how you wave your hands around as long as your thinking the right way

Unfortunatley this is not correct either. IMO.

If we take tai chi (because most know this). The forms are designed to apply pressure and twisting into your tendons, and your medirians. This is a planned form of movement that was formed from a deep understanding of the fact that tendons hold far more potential energy than muscle. And an understanding of chinese medical practice.

If you just do Karate Kata slowly, you will .... well .... just be doing Karate Kata slowly!! You WONT be doing tai chi or anything Like tai chi.

The principles of issuing power in tai chi and a style such as karate are very different.

- Karate - muscular segmented power, straightened body alignment.

- Tai chi - connected skeletal and tendon power, connected but fluid body alignment.

Also the way tai chi approaches combat is very different.

Karate fighting is generally block then hit, block then hit.

Tai chi make the assumption that if you can hit the opponent, then the opponent can hit you. So tai chi is redirtect/parry/disperse while hitting, redirtect/parry/disperse while hitting. There is also just blocking or just striking, but you never segment your attack and defence, they happen simultaniously.

To mix the two would contradict the internal principles of tai chi and the external principles of Karate. On there own both are effective, when mixed you have No real content, only confusion.

Cheers
chris

[jubaji]

Originally posted by tai-gip
but the internal is realy only training your mental thought during any given move .its focusing/feeling the energy.flowing with it

dont think it realy matters how you wave your hands around as long as your thinking the right way

Have I mentioned recently what an idiot you are?

[tai-gip]

lol chris you pretty much say yourself it the thought behind karate that differs as i said ... true tai chi has specific exercis designed for alligning internal organs and longjevity

but try any movement you like with the tai chi philosophical principles for eg washing dishes..walking....

yes i have done internal ma im in a combined style now..

and the original principal in karate was to same as to most arts just a different application that over the years has been lost to become punch hard as you can ..good..kick hard as you can..good..
meant to have the same thought behind it though at least thats what i was told but it dosnt make it right obviously everyone needs to decide what they see as right

as i said thopugh if you know any other arts/styles try the movements from that with the tai-chi thinking... your just moving your body differently..... saying one way is better gets us into the which style is better...

open to comments that dont degenerate into childish insults

[Thai Bri]

Poop Poop off, wee wee knickers!

[chris davis 200]

Guess you didnt read my post then!

I stated the reason why just moving in Karate slowly does not amount to Tai chi.

I did not say - tai chi is better - i said they go about things DIFFERENTLY.

The body mechanics are DIFFERENT, the form of training is DIFFERENT, the style of fighting is DIFFERENT, the internal aspects are DIFFERENT. Just doing karate like your doing Tai chi will NOT make them the same.

I have trained in Karate, and all three main internal systems. There is a reason why Karate is an EXTERNAL art and Tai Chi is an INTERNAL art. This reason has little to do with chi or your mind it is to do with the internal aspects of the fighting and power generation principles. They are ABSENT from Karate. Karate is an are based on muscular generated power. It will not be internal.

There is a school near me that teaches the two together - from Karate they try to teach tai chi - needless to say their tai chi is basically karate, and is very very poor from a tai chi point of view, very little / no tai chi principles or basics are retained, it is all karate.

I always wonder why people would choose to mix an art like tai chi?? An art with locking, throwing, kicking, punching, knee's, elbows, shoulder attacks, palm strikes, shin strikes, forearm strikes, advanced rooting and movement, Free sparring, pushing hands, health benefits etc etc.

Although Karate offers much of this, what extra does if offer to warrant mixing the two???

anyways!!

I see bri has entered the conversation, Nice to have your excellent comments here.

[Mookjong5]

Tai Chi is a for the relaxation of the body, but it can be applied in self defense. It does take considerable time to learn however.



IF WAR IS HELL, TAKE A BETTER PITCHFORK THAN THE DEVIL

[chris davis 200]

I would say 3 years of intense study and you could fight very well with tai chi. And definatley defend yourself in most street encounters. Not that long really.

Cheers
Chris

[krys]

Yes 3 years with a good instructor..... it is a heavy commitment.
The Bagua-Tai Chi instructor's form E. Montaigue's lineage I trained under used to practice the Bagua walk 2 hours a day.... and this did not include the other exercises....

[jubaji]

Originally posted by krys

The Bagua-Tai Chi instructor's form E. Montaigue's lineage

uh-oh

[krys]

.

[jubaji]

Seems I've seen that guy's name kicked around quite a bit as a fraud. But Idunno...

[krys]

Can't hardly imagine him as a fraud (by the way I think he was a professional wrestler in his youth, so he was fighting oriented from the start). One of his instructors was the only skilled fighter I met who could use Tai ChI and Bagua (in Europe) .
You can visit his website at www.taijiworld.com

Much of what he said and wrote makes sense to me.