Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[Smart Fighter]

The same thing has happened to Judo. It is now just a shell of what it was. Tai Chi Chuan is one of the most powerful and useful martial arts for defense, its a shame that these applications are seldom explored. In fact they can augment and improve other styles to compliment a vast array of fighting skills. Any artist can improve whatever they do if they apply the principles found in Tai Chi.

[guy incognito]

The same thing has happened to Judo. It is now just a shell of what it was. Tai Chi Chuan is one of the most powerful and useful martial arts for defense, its a shame that these applications are seldom explored. In fact they can augment and improve other styles to compliment a vast array of fighting skills. Any artist can improve whatever they do if they apply the principles found in Tai Chi.

Yes im sure Jigori Kano(I think hes the founder of judo isnt he?) would not be happy with the way the art has gone.Tai chi is a very good complement to other arts yes.I think the benifits of balence and increased strength have been emense for me.Not to forget timming as well.

[Smart Fighter]

Yes im sure Jigori Kano(I think hes the founder of judo isnt he?) would not be happy with the way the art has gone.Tai chi is a very good complement to other arts yes.I think the benifits of balence and increased strength have been emense for me.Not to forget timming as well.

I agree with you completely.

[sherwinc]

You are extremely WRONG.........

Tai chi is considered a martial arts by many,it is said that if the techniques of Tai Chi are to be used very quickly in a real situation they will be very effective as a self-defense.Of course these techniques can be done very quickly and softly if the other person isn't moving and isn't fighting back.

I personally do not consider Tai Chi an art of self-defense.

I can not imagine how an art with nothing but forms can be useful on street.

For any art to be useful on street you need to train and practice like a fighter through full contact sparring.

Tai Chi as far as I am concerned is just an art for practicing chi and for learning to relax, that's why it is very good and healthy for young and elderly people.

Who here agrees ?

Yes, TaiChi is made up of mostly "Forms" but...... unlike those of Karate and Tae Kwon Do..... Tai Chi Chuan Forms starts from the beginning and ends up in closing form as a single movement, i mean, in its form - you could not guess if where is the beginning and where it ends cause there's no pause by pause or stop by stop motion like those of Karate and Tae Kwon Do forms.

cause a fist is not a fist, the whole body is a fist, and it will take it 30minutes to finish a single form, and it contains 6 to more applications in each form in the whole 30 minutes sequence....

we (TaiChi) only knows its application and not you.....

My personal experience in practicing TaiChi and apply it in combat (but 60% of it i assure you - very effective in combat) is first of all, give emphasis to Twee Chiu (pushing hands) you must learn sensitivity first until your are good in pushing hands... no sensitivity training means waste form practicing like those of karate and tae kwon do that their forms are not applicable in a true fight.

note:
why 60% only?????

answer:
because until now, i'm still learning TaiChi even thou i can apply it in combat effective but when the opponent is also good - i immediately switch my art to ChiDianBun, WingChun, and some of NgoChoKun KungFu......

note:
how can you perform grasping the sparrows tail if you have no sensitive hands and bridge forearm????????? and besides, the key to taichi is its pushing hands, there are many pushing hands fit to any fighting positions....

but for me, you can truelly understand it all if you give importance on wingchun's chisau while also practicing taichi's pushing hands.... the benefit is..... you will know the difference between the two, very effective.....

why i inssist this????? cause i already tried it practice - the reason why the ration of hit when sparring is 2:22 (i hit him 22times while he hit me 2times)

convinced?????

[sherwinc]

Your experience in martial arts are very small....

Yah the old ladies in the park can really kick ass. Hey how about Yellow bamboo?

the problem is.... speaking of Tai Chi Chuan.... the thing that comes to the mind of the ignorant is all purely pushing and no power and all forms.... you are all non-kungfu wrong!!!!!

do you know that when it comes to GROUNDFIGHTING..... still, Tai Chi Chuan is the best? why? the answer is.... pls.... try review your whole form, practice it gradually and in time, you may know it why.

the reasons why TaiChi Teachers doesn't teach you most of the advanced techniques of taichi... it is because taichi is not good for a narrow minded non-kungfu.....

taichichuan is also effective in breaking opponent elbows, knees, immobilizing, but the point is..... YOU DONT KNOW HOW!!!!

mostly, the tai chi instructor will teach you only forms and push hands, but its 6-to-more applications in each form is not, i mean, instructor doesnt teach you that advancedddddddd.

SPEAKING OF ALL GRAPLING MARTIAL ARTS: TAI CHI CHUAN IS THE SUPREME ULTIMATE and even Brazilian JuiJitsu, Submission Wrestling cannot match....

i know, all advanced practitioners of Tai Chi Chuan knows this, try ask your instructor honestly, just open your mind......just review your whole forms and analize it while you practice....

Note:
Tai Chi Chuan whole forms are consist of full: arm breaking, pushing, groundfighting, defense against flight fighter opponent, endless hand and feet techniques....... now, if you dont know how to use it in combat - its your problem.

kungfu is hard to learn but precious
non-kungfu is easy to learn yet easy to defeat

just like....

F-14 Fighter Plane is hard to learn but precious
Japanese Tora-tora plane is easy to learn but easy to defeat

convinced?????????

[guy incognito]

Tai chi is awesome.I agree if you dont know how to apply to bad!

[chris davis 200]

To be honest the art of tai chi chuan does not ned to be proved on a forum.

I have used Tai chi Chuan in reality, i have seen it used and know that it is powerful when used.

I think that tai chi worship is as bad as worshiping any other art. Bigging it up too much will lead to every non believer setting out to prove you wrong, going down to the local Granny infested tai Chi school and challanging the Yoga style tai chi instructor to 'ROLL'.

Just be happy in what you know and practice and leave it there.

Saying it is powerful means nothing to the people here - giving examples of what makes it powerful does! hence my posts ....

I think we have done this one to death ppl!

Cheers
Chris

[Tom Yum]

the reasons why TaiChi Teachers doesn't teach you most of the advanced techniques of taichi... it is because taichi is not good for a narrow minded non-kungfu.....

taichichuan is also effective in breaking opponent elbows, knees, immobilizing, but the point is..... YOU DONT KNOW HOW!!!!

mostly, the tai chi instructor will teach you only forms and push hands, but its 6-to-more applications in each form is not, i mean, instructor doesnt teach you that advancedddddddd.

SPEAKING OF ALL GRAPLING MARTIAL ARTS: TAI CHI CHUAN IS THE SUPREME ULTIMATE and even Brazilian JuiJitsu, Submission Wrestling cannot match....

Note:
Tai Chi Chuan whole forms are consist of full: arm breaking, pushing, groundfighting, defense against flight fighter opponent, endless hand and feet techniques....... now, if you dont know how to use it in combat - its your problem.

convinced?????????

Elloquence is not your forte.

Sherwinc is like loud radio with no volume control and no tuner. Before you burst into a fit of rage, and chi punch my Wolverine Icon, I'm just teasing.

You say that taichi is the most superior form of groundfighting. How often do you roll with well trained jujitsu fighters and submission wrestlers?

I think that tai chi might have some excellent concepts that can help a practicioner make their opponent loose their balance, control position while standing and knock the wind out of them, but tai chi has not established itself in any public fighting exhibition or tournament.

A taichi guy demonstrated how to defend knees from the static clinch quite effectively. Once he was clinched, he used both of his arms to redirect one of the attacking knees and pull it off at an angle, causing the attacker to slip and land on the ground with the taichi guy on top. Nice. But the clinch doesn't remain static for that long. Thai fighters will push and pull you in different directions to gain control of their own momentum and to send you into their knees, so you have to catch the first knee (which is not going to be easy!)

[sherwinc]

Elloquence is not your forte.

Sherwinc is like loud radio with no volume control and no tuner. Before you burst into a fit of rage, and chi punch my Wolverine Icon, I'm just teasing.

You say that taichi is the most superior form of groundfighting. How often do you roll with well trained jujitsu fighters and submission wrestlers?

I think that tai chi might have some excellent concepts that can help a practicioner make their opponent loose their balance, control position while standing and knock the wind out of them, but tai chi has not established itself in any public fighting exhibition or tournament.

A taichi guy demonstrated how to defend knees from the static clinch quite effectively. Once he was clinched, he used both of his arms to redirect one of the attacking knees and pull it off at an angle, causing the attacker to slip and land on the ground with the taichi guy on top. Nice. But the clinch doesn't remain static for that long. Thai fighters will push and pull you in different directions to gain control of their own momentum and to send you into their knees, so you have to catch the first knee (which is not going to be easy!)

another kind/example of wrong interpretation of the art TaiChi, taichi usually neutralize that opponents knee into emptiness -and that's an elementary level..... entering to advance level of taichi is.... the left hand neutralize that knee attack of yours while the other hand really strikes you from behind and no telegraphic moves, take note: i did not mention the simulteaneos insertion of a kick manuever....

the main problem is.... you dont know how to apply tai chi in an advanced manner.... all that you know is all pushing/redirecting/neutralizing - its all elementary level if that is what you do when you applying your taichi.... analyze it.....

sometimes, i spar with my opponent using my tai chi particularly to defend his first attack then i stop using taichi and immediately switch to a combination of ChiDianBun, WingChun, NgoChoKun.... and when you see, your opponent doesnt know what to do next.... switching from kungfu to another kungfu instantly your opponent will confuse and get beat......

ALL SOLID KUNGFU......

convinced??????

[bustr]

"I can not imagine how an art with nothing but forms can be useful on street."

You're only seeing the 24 step simplified Yang form. Do some research on Chen Village Taichichuan.

[Tom Yum]

sometimes, i spar with my opponent using my tai chi particularly to defend his first attack then i stop using taichi and immediately switch to a combination of ChiDianBun, WingChun, NgoChoKun.... and when you see, your opponent doesnt know what to do next.... switching from kungfu to another kungfu instantly your opponent will confuse and get beat......

ALL SOLID KUNGFU......

convinced??????

You're integrating different styles of kung fu and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that tai chi is any more effective than jujitsu or any other grappling style. Tai chi might have brilliant fight applications, but the public has yet to see a pure Tai chi stylist frustrate a jujitsu pracitioner or muay thai fighter. They wouldn't have to win to impress the ma world, simply hold their own.

You're doing the same thing as guys who integrate muay thai, jujitsu and fillipino arts, except that you are using different styles of kung fu.

[sherwinc]

You're integrating different styles of kung fu and there's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that tai chi is any more effective than jujitsu or any other grappling style. Tai chi might have brilliant fight applications, but the public has yet to see a pure Tai chi stylist frustrate a jujitsu pracitioner or muay thai fighter. They wouldn't have to win to impress the ma world, simply hold their own.

You're doing the same thing as guys who integrate muay thai, jujitsu and fillipino arts, except that you are using different styles of kung fu.

every kungfu has its own dis-advantages and advantages, absorb what is usefull in every kungfu and reject what is useless, select only one major kungfu while also learning other kungfu branches.....

select what is usefull
reject what is useless
add especially what is your own....
(all solid kungfu)

the more the kungfu is traditional/not exposed to the public (its advantages/dis-advantages) the more it is effective/deadly/very dirty fight.....

[darrianation]

every kungfu has its own dis-advantages and advantages, absorb what is usefull in every kungfu and reject what is useless, select only one major kungfu while also learning other kungfu branches.....

select what is usefull
reject what is useless
add especially what is your own....
(all solid kungfu)

the more the kungfu is traditional/not exposed to the public (its advantages/dis-advantages) the more it is effective/deadly/very dirty fight.....

There you go again! Secret does not equal more effective or lethal. There are no secret dirty techniques. Just because not all dirty techniques are taught by all instructors or systems doesn't make them secret, and they hold no mystic powers.

I know a lot of dirty tricks and techniques but none are secret nor are they mystical. I know 100 ways to break someone’s arm, obliterate their testicles, and gouge their eyes out. I now the dirty tricks with knives and other edged weapons but believe me not a one is a secret.

Get out of your cave, get sober, and face reality!

[sherwinc]

There you go again! Secret does not equal more effective or lethal. There are no secret dirty techniques. Just because not all dirty techniques are taught by all instructors or systems doesn't make them secret, and they hold no mystic powers.

I know a lot of dirty tricks and techniques but none are secret nor are they mystical. I know 100 ways to break someone’s arm, obliterate their testicles, and gouge their eyes out. I now the dirty tricks with knives and other edged weapons but believe me not a one is a secret.

Get out of your cave, get sober, and face reality!

You said you(MIND) know how to break someone's arm in 100 ways... it is only in your MIND but you cannot use it in reality.

Even wingchun cannot use its 108 hand attacks in reality but thru their ChiSau (sticking hands) once bridge to bridge contact, only the WINGCHUN MAXIMS dictate cause we have blind eyes.....

WingChun Maxims:
absorb what is useful
reject what is useless
add especially what is your own

Note:
Memory is not only located inside your head..... we have also two memories located each inside the Iron Bridge Forearm (used for chisau)

Note:
only wingchun has an extension of memories on both of their bridge forearm and none in non-kungfu arts.... we have to develop that for chisau, chisau dictates what action we have to move and not on the dictates of our mind

(maybe our mind is only slave and chisau is the master : computer terms)


Taichi has its pushing hands.....

Example:
you know computer right???? Memory is not only located on the Motherboard but computers as of now, there are memories located too on the VideoCard for a more powerfull effect.


Note:
there still plenty of things that you do not know about kungfu, the reason is, you have a very low knowledge in kungfu....


CONVINCED?????

[darrianation]

You said you(MIND) know how to break someone's arm in 100 ways... it is only in your MIND but you cannot use it in reality.

Even wingchun cannot use its 108 hand attacks in reality but thru their ChiSau (sticking hands) once bridge to bridge contact, only the WINGCHUN MAXIMS dictate cause we have blind eyes.....

WingChun Maxims:
absorb what is useful
reject what is useless
add especially what is your own

Note:
Memory is not only located inside your head..... we have also two memories located each inside the Iron Bridge Forearm (used for chisau)

Note:
only wingchun has an extension of memories on both of their bridge forearm and none in non-kungfu arts.... we have to develop that for chisau, chisau dictates what action we have to move and not on the dictates of our mind

(maybe our mind is only slave and chisau is the master : computer terms)


Taichi has its pushing hands.....

Example:
you know computer right???? Memory is not only located on the Motherboard but computers as of now, there are memories located too on the VideoCard for a more powerfull effect.


Note:
there still plenty of things that you do not know about kungfu, the reason is, you have a very low knowledge in kungfu....


CONVINCED?????

You keep on saying people don’t know anything about Kung FU, but what do you know about other martial arts? From what I can tell not much. You keep talking about powerful secret techniques not shared to the public, have they been shared with you? What are they pray tell? Or are they just too lethal that you have been sworn to secrecy?

I may not know much about your particular style of KF but I now plenty about science, fighting, and the fact your lips are permanently stuck to that bong. There is now magic pill. You cannot sit for hours and meditate to make your foes simply disappear into a puff of smoke.

I have sparred several Wing Chun guys and believe me I haven’t been all that impressed. However their forms are quite impressive but I think the best use for them is in a disco club.
As for memory, all your training (techniques) really comes down to neuromuscular memorization because that will be all that can be used when the primitive mind takes over when the adrenaline hits and you become stressed when suddenly and violently attacked. Complicated moves and intricate techniques will be worthless.

You keep saying KF is Ultimate why? I never claim one MA is superior over an other. I may say some may be better for some things than others but it depends on the individual goals. My belief is when it comes to self-defense the simpler the better, the more direct the better. I think you no nothing of real fighting. I think you live in this little insulated (MA) world where science and truth cannot penetrate. You have been brain washed by the traditionalists to believe that complicated, intricate, secret, shrouded in mysticism methods of KF are more effective than everything else out there. You are naive to think this way. You are locked in a cave with no light and you don’t even now how ignorant some of the things you say really are.

Convinced????