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Working well.
It worked well enough to get a response, and it was good enough that everyone understood it the first time.
It worked well enough to get a response, and it was good enough that everyone understood it the first time.
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Originally posted by Jeremy Lobdell
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What did?Comment
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1234567890Comment
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Originally posted by Ironpalm
Idiot
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This is not a style vrs style thread!However, get real--any boxer with equal time training is going to hand him his ass (in the beginning).
But depending on the focus of each persons training i am not sure you are right here. What if the tai chi guy only focuses on Throwing and locking methods? What if the boxer only does cardio? what if the boxer only leaqrns Jabs? what if the Tai chi guy only learns form? What if the boxer only learns stance?
Etc etc - as with every style vrs style comment - it is completely impossible to say as two many variables are pressent!
History has proved you wrong on too many occassions to count.To be able to defend yourself in less than 20 years without cross training in any other arts may be possible, but so is becoming president of the united states.
As I have stated - internal systems can AND HAVE been learned as effective defense methods in a short time. It is not the Art itself, it is the Complete rubbish that 99% of the internal arts masters put out in the west!
The main problem is That people, even those that have trained for many many years, do not quite get these arts!
They are fluid, dynamic, effective arts from the outset. This is why they became so well known - not for one or two masters being good - this happens in any art - but because all that came to challenge a school would be defeated by even the lowest level students of the school.
BK Frantzis recounts being easily defeated, when he was a 21 year old Goju Ryu All Japan Karate Champion and veteran of the Japanese full contact circuit, by people at wang shu jins ba gua school who had only trained for a year and where twice his age!!
As a further example my ex tai chi teacher studied Hsing I 17 years - he has been to China, trained with some top 'masters' etc etc.
I have studied Hsing I for far less time - a matter of a few years. But with authentic traditional instruction - he is unable to come close to me.
I now teach him and some other people in my area that have been doing Hsing I with him for a long time. they claim that I have the same power as most of the so called masters that they have met. And I have little skill compared to the people I have been taught by, who in turn claim to have little skill compared to those that taught them!
This IS THE PROBLEM. People think that someone called 'master' so and so is actually a Master when they know little of the arts true nature of the correct way to transmit it!
We have a situation where even some of the real masters are teaching rubbish to foreigners, where Americans etc are heading to china for a few years, doing form with a low level practitioner and coming back masters, where people mediocre in the arts are becoming house hold names in the west due to their marketing abilities. None of these people seem to transmit the art as it was designed - effective, to the point, devastating combat methods!
By My teacher it involved confined space work and multiple attacker work.When was the last time you saw real taiji self defense taught and where?
here is an example of Tai chi opening movement in a combative sense.
Notice the movement after the initial attack to the limb, moving to the rear gate of the attacker, covering from other opponents, and taking the attackers remaining weapons out of the equation.
This guy that was hit could not use his arm for a while.
Here is effectively Roll back from Tai chi (although he is displaying a ba gua concept that shares its principle. The opponent is pulled into your centre and then this flow is reversed with peng expansive power to down the opponent.
Agreed!That way of moving can be learned in a short time but real power comes with time and practice.
People that train once a week in any art wont progress very quickly - regardless of the art!
But training every day in the internal systems WILL give you real power in the system - and it sure as hell WONT TAKE 25 years!!!!
regards
ChrisComment
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1234567890Comment
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In my experience there is no seperation of chin na in Tai Chi, All tai chi movements and principles translate to Locking, throwing, striking, multiple attackers, armed attackers, etc etc - all from the 13 principles of power and movement. I do not seperate to say - this is chin na that is Shuai jao - i just say this is Tai Chi.Now a couple of comments: If the Taiji guy only practices joint locks, Thats basicllly a sub-genre called Chin na. If he only practices throwing that's more like fast wrestling or Shuai jo.
Agreed. I think we agree on more than it appears. My point is that this instruction is the norm in the west and to some extent the east, BUT this is not a representation of the art of tai chi - it is a representation of a portion of the art missing most of the key concepts!As you have said, your "ex" Taiji teacher with 17 years experience who trained in china..... you can now beat up with a couple of Years Hsin yi. Thank you for making my point for me. Its nearly immpossible to find a good Taiji school for the average joe.
Neither am i my friend. Much of what you said is correct. Training Wu shu tai chi, westernised tai chi etc would take a massive amount of time to become defencively adept.I am not trying to get in a p...ing contest with you.
But i am talking about authentic traditional tai chi - combat efficiencey is obtained quickly.
We are in complete agreement!I believe in the art ... just not most people teaching it.
Kindest Regards
ChrisComment
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ask a troll........Comment
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Originally posted by Ironpalm
But wait, there's more! We also throw in this free potato peeler, a $2.00 value, free!!Comment
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Originally posted by jubaji
AAAA Jumanji again ...
IN A LAND WITH NO TURKEYS, LIFE WOULD BE SUPREME
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There is two differences"
Tai Ji
and
Tai Ji Chuan
The later being the defenseive/fightingComment
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Tai Chi sparring
I just skimmed through the posts here so forgive me if someone mentioned this. But have we discussed sticking hands yet that is how you spar with Tai-Chi. Tai-Chi is used up close and in your opponents face not giving him room to draw back a punch like most fighters have to do and it teaches you to trap your opponents legs so he can't kick. Sticking hands teaches you to stay on your opponent and fell he move almost before he initiates an attack. I take Yang style Tai-Chi and have found it very effective in Close Quarter Combat. It gives me the edge I need to stay one step ahead of my opponent, Also Tai-Chi is practiced slow in but it is applied at breakneck speed. You develope your body into a whip so that you don't have to muscle f**ck your way through a fight. The faster you throw your punch the harder it hits. Just make sure you condition your hands to accept the force of your punch.Comment
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You are incorrect-sticky hands as you describe it is Wing Chun.Originally posted by BaguaBoxer
Sticky hands as you describe it IS not Tai Chi
Now if you are trying to state "Pushing Hands"-that is different.Comment
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1234567890Comment
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by the way
I also practice wing chun as well not as much as some of my other arts but I have managed to make my own traditional wooden dummy the kind where the arms are the same height and not offset. But no matter what you call a sensitivity skill its always good to haveComment
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