Tai Chi,good self-defense art or not?

[kingoftheforest]

Remember

And these Tai Chi people were only "beat up" not hospitalized or killed.

[treelizard]

This is off the Superior Martial Arts website. The link is dead so I can't post the article, but it is dated 2005-08-11, Elderly Woman Doing Tai Chi Assaulted In Park, New York Newsday. I can't pull it up on their site for some reason.

I found this, too:
"On the afternoon of April 17, 1989, a Monday, a woman in her 20's went to do tai chi exercises in an area of Central Park called Fish Fort, off 106th Street. A young man strolled up and began chatting with her. Something in his manner made the woman uncomfortable, she later told detectives, so she moved to leave. Then the man pounced. He beat her face and head, pulled off her clothes and assaulted her sexually until another man, hearing the woman's screams, arrived on the scene. The attacker fled. The woman's injuries were so severe that she was admitted to St. Luke's Hospital and spent at least two nights there, officials said." From Talk Left: The Politics of Crime http://talkleft.com/new_archives/000630.html

Haven't found the Tucson one yet.

This isn't to say that tai chi won't teach you self-defense, just that it seems many tai chi students get assaulted... I was attacked after years of wado ryu karate, which led me to seek other arts and skills. My exboyfriend was killed in a bar fight and he attended a one-day self-defense seminar, leading me to believe that maybe you need more than a one-day self-defense seminar. On the other hand, there are stories of people who used their arts for self-defense successfully.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily the fault of the style, the teacher or the practitioner. All I'm saying is that it's a good idea to look into this before bad things happen. Which I'm sure many tai chi players on this board already have.

[BoarSpear]

You're joking, right? There was a taijutsu class in the park where somebody was trying to start shit, saying, "Hey, I'm gonna beat up all your black belts" and targetting the women in the class. The students got him out of there.

There's also another article you can find, it's called "Elderly Woman Doing Tai Chi Assaulted in Park" or something like that. Let me hit google...

Oh my an elderly woman (doing old people tai chi no doubt) was assaulted in the park!! so was that the long time tai chi person the 3 thugs jumped?

O i see if a 75 year old helio gracie was out practicing butt scooting in the park and 3 thugs jumped him he would beat them all up...


Im sure an old wrestler woulda just suplexed them all

[treelizard]

Would you like me to post some verifiable articles on DEAD and critical condition MMA stars who applied thier skills in the street?

improper use of any art can get you killed, all phony arts and sports are dangerous as they give people a false sense of security in the street...very few poeple practice or teach taiji for SD the majority of the risk from bad SD instruction isnt likely to be the taiji people

I believe you on the MMA thing.

But I think SOME taiji can give you a false sense of security in the street too. If people don't teach it for SD, maybe they shouldn't put it on their fliers?

[treelizard]

Oh my an elderly woman (doing old people tai chi no doubt) was assaulted in the park!! so was that the long time tai chi person the 3 thugs jumped?

I'm looking!!!! Give me a minute!! My google skills aren't as proficient as yours.

[BoarSpear]

This is off the Superior Martial Arts website. The link is dead so I can't post the article, but it is dated 2005-08-11, Elderly Woman Doing Tai Chi Assaulted In Park, New York Newsday. I can't pull it up on their site for some reason.

I found this, too:
"On the afternoon of April 17, 1989, a Monday, a woman in her 20's went to do tai chi exercises in an area of Central Park called Fish Fort, off 106th Street. A young man strolled up and began chatting with her. Something in his manner made the woman uncomfortable, she later told detectives, so she moved to leave. Then the man pounced. He beat her face and head, pulled off her clothes and assaulted her sexually until another man, hearing the woman's screams, arrived on the scene. The attacker fled. The woman's injuries were so severe that she was admitted to St. Luke's Hospital and spent at least two nights there, officials said." From Talk Left: The Politics of Crime http://talkleft.com/new_archives/000630.html

Haven't found the Tucson one yet.

This isn't to say that tai chi won't teach you self-defense, just that it seems many tai chi students get assaulted... I was attacked after years of wado ryu karate, which led me to seek other arts and skills. My exboyfriend was killed in a bar fight and he attended a one-day self-defense seminar, leading me to believe that maybe you need more than a one-day self-defense seminar. On the other hand, there are stories of people who used their arts for self-defense successfully.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily the fault of the style, the teacher or the practitioner. All I'm saying is that it's a good idea to look into this before bad things happen. Which I'm sure many tai chi players on this board already have.

Well now a 20 year old woman doing taiji exercises is raped by a man...hmmm
Where is that "wrestler armed with flashlight against the smaller empty handed soldier" thread?...it seems the little soldier took the big wrestlers weapon and killed him....gee that was two men fighting and the wrestler was armed!! and everyone said SO WHAT, but a woman doing doing tai chi EXERCISES geting raped...well that just invalidated all taiji doesnt it?

[BoarSpear]

I believe you on the MMA thing.

But I think SOME taiji can give you a false sense of security in the street too. If people don't teach it for SD, maybe they shouldn't put it on their fliers?

guns, knives, and badges ALL give people inflated senses of security and coolness that are HIGHLY inflated....so Taiji is bound to be guilty...one day we all hope to be as realistic in our appraisal as the MMA people are.

[treelizard]

well that just invalidated all taiji doesnt it?

Did I say that?

[treelizard]

I'm still looking for the article. Will hit the library if I can't find it, but I also e-mailed my friends who told me about it. Or I could try to FOIA the info but will be hard because I don't know the exact date, etc.

I didn't write anything about MMA being more realistic! In fact, I believe I even posted an article to the contrary, or maybe I posted this elsewhere.

http://strategosintl.com/pdfs/The-Cage-and-Reality.pdf

If people who were practicing the art I was training in were getting beat up in the park, I think I'd want to know about it.. and Boar a lot of people think that tai chi excercises ARE self-defense. You don't think that's a problem?

And I agree with you, people who train with guns and knives may want to train empty-handed too to be more well-rounded.

I certainly didn't mean to start a this-art-is-better-than-your-art debate.

I'll find that article!!!!

[jubaji]

stop sniffing the glue, kid

so 3 of your friends saw this article, and YOU saw similiar ones about thugs beating up Taiji people huh? But no one can find any articles about taiji failing in the street huh?Would you like me to post some verifiable articles on DEAD and critical condition MMA stars who applied thier skills in the street? ...would that make your taiji people getting beat up by THREE thugs less important? mind you THREE attackers, all you knuckleheads spout how NO ONE can fight multiples, then some tai chi person in a PARK gets jumped according to rumour and you wanna let that reflect on the art?

Don't you see how you are contradicting yourself?

"Don't you dare make generalizations about X!" "Look how this anecdote shows the worthlessness of Y!"

[jubaji]

Oh my an elderly woman (doing old people tai chi no doubt) was assaulted in the park!! so was that the long time tai chi person the 3 thugs jumped?

O i see if a 75 year old helio gracie was out practicing butt scooting in the park and 3 thugs jumped him he would beat them all up...


Im sure an old wrestler woulda just suplexed them all

You're not too insecure, eh?

[medic06]

I'm still looking for the article. Will hit the library if I can't find it, but I also e-mailed my friends who told me about it. Or I could try to FOIA the info but will be hard because I don't know the exact date, etc.

I didn't write anything about MMA being more realistic! In fact, I believe I even posted an article to the contrary, or maybe I posted this elsewhere.

http://strategosintl.com/pdfs/The-Cage-and-Reality.pdf

If people who were practicing the art I was training in were getting beat up in the park, I think I'd want to know about it.. and Boar a lot of people think that tai chi excercises ARE self-defense. You don't think that's a problem?

And I agree with you, people who train with guns and knives may want to train empty-handed too to be more well-rounded.

I certainly didn't mean to start a this-art-is-better-than-your-art debate.

I'll find that article!!!!

So practicing Tai Chi in the park attracts muggers and rapists????

[treelizard]

So practicing Tai Chi in the park attracts muggers and rapists????

Yes, that's exactly what I wrote.

[knifethrower]

I will agree that it is damn near impossible to find a good Tai chi teacher who has used the art in real life...wouldn't you agree Knifethrower?

Is someone speaking to me again??? Can’t I take a bong hit in peace!?!?

"damn near impossible"? Wow

yep, for me it was

I was looking in the Southeast Texas/ Southwest Louisiana area, Aspen and other areas of Colorado, and Tokyo. I’ve looked in a lot of other places but didn’t look long enough to give it a fair chance. The whole search took about 20 years. If you want I can give more details.

After the internet was up and running I found this guy

http://www.taijiworld.com/welcome.htm

Erle Montaigue

Seems I've seen that guy's name kicked around quite a bit as a fraud. But Idunno...

Yep, I just done hung a bear

[BoarSpear]

Earles definately a good place to start