Triangle Footwork

[Keeper]

Hey Guys

I hear a lot about the triangle footwork of the south-east Asian martial arts, but I was taught what was called V footwork (guessing it's pretty much the same thing). It's very basic and was hoping somebody could elaborate on the triangle stuff.

Anybody recomend websites with diagrams?

Thanks!

Keeper

[LAKANPOPOT]

Re: Triangle Footwork

Originally posted by Keeper
Hey Guys

I hear a lot about the triangle footwork of the south-east Asian martial arts, but I was taught what was called V footwork (guessing it's pretty much the same thing). It's very basic and was hoping somebody could elaborate on the triangle stuff.

Anybody recomend websites with diagrams?

Thanks!

Keeper

Hi keeper,
I see you study kombatan. We use the term V-footwork because it is easy for beginners to understand the shape of the V. But you assumed right the V footwork is the Triangle footwork. You use it the same way the triangle footwork is used. Just a different term.
Hope this helps.

[sikal]

Yup. If you draw a line along the open end of a "V", you've got a triangle

Mike

[Keeper]

Thanks for your replies guys

What I was taught was basicly that with the imaginary traingle facing away from my oponent, I can advance to him on either his left for rigth side and attack from those angles.
With the triangle facing towards him, i can move back and to either side, away from the attack in a largo range.

I like it because it's basic and therefore effective.

But what about all this triangle inside a square, and many triangles forming a zig-zag stuff? That's what I'm interested in, because it seems so complicated (i'm simple like that )

Thanks again!

Keeper

[sikal]

Originally posted by Keeper
Thanks for your replies guys

What I was taught was basicly that with the imaginary traingle facing away from my oponent, I can advance to him on either his left for rigth side and attack from those angles.
With the triangle facing towards him, i can move back and to either side, away from the attack in a largo range.

Yup. I've been taught the same but call them, respectively, female and male triangles.

Here's a good article about some of it:

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/kali-footwork.htm

However, the female triangle can also be used to retreat and the male can be used to advance. If you look at the picture in the article below, you'll see reference to the female and male triangles.

Normally, this is approaced as if you're standing in the middle of the box and facing North. Now, imagine standing at the base of the box and face North (so you're at the base of the male triangle) and your opponent is at the center of the box. Now you can step forward along the line of the male triangle to cut through the opponent's center line. Did that make any sense?

On the flip side, if you stand at the top of the box and face North, and step backward (retreat) along the female triangle line, you'll move your body off line to evade an incoming attack, but you won't really be giving up any ground.

So, basically, the female triangle can be used to gain ground or to hold ground. The male triangle can be used to gain ground or to retreat.

And, really, that's still just the tip of the iceberg

Another good resource for it is one of the Dog Brothers videos (I think it's the first in their series that talks about footwork).

Mike

[Keeper]

Thanks a lot Mike

Got another question though ....

What about stepping to A with the left foot? I inquired about that when I was being trained, but it didn't seem to be a part of the teachings. I practice that footing myself, but don't recall seeing it in any FMA. Am I making some tactical mistake by training this?

Thank you again

Keeper

[sikal]

Originally posted by Keeper
Thanks a lot Mike

Got another question though ....

What about stepping to A with the left foot? I inquired about that when I was being trained, but it didn't seem to be a part of the teachings. I practice that footing myself, but don't recall seeing it in any FMA. Am I making some tactical mistake by training this?

Thank you again

Keeper

A tactical mistake? Depends on the situation.

I've seen that footwork from Dr. Gyi and I get the impression he would know if it were a tactical no-no

However, he's not doing FMA.

So, from an FMA standpoint, you have to remember that these triangles aren't isolated. They're everywhere. Where one ends, another begins. This is where the "sawtooth" type drills start coming into play.

I used the same letters that Dave used in his article on my diagram but added Q because it wasn't on the diagram from Dave's article..

One of the many possible things you can do with this would be to step forward to A with your left foot, then slide your right foot from N to Q. This might be used as a lateral evasion which, in my experience, is generally not done because it will leave you in a poor position for attacking an opponent who is standing in front of N. But it could be a desperation move. Or it could be that you've already neutralized (at least temporarily) the guy in front of N and you're heading on to his buddy or toward an exit or to grab a weapon of convenience.

Another use for that would be a run by. I actually have seen Guro Dan bring out that footwork at a seminar as part of a technique. The technique was a sword technique where you step to A with your left foot as you let your blade hit from a backhanded position, then you draw as you pivot around 360 to finish with a decap. Hope that description makes sense.

Mike

[swan104]

Since this is a question about the South-East Asian martial arts, the triangle is also an important component of many styles of Silat.

[krys]

Since this is a question about the South-East Asian martial arts, the triangle is also an important component of many styles of Silat.

I agree, although it is less important than in most Arnis styles....

[sikal]

Originally posted by swan104
Since this is a question about the South-East Asian martial arts, the triangle is also an important component of many styles of Silat.

Absolutely. The triangle is the basic component of most (if not all) the balance disruptions.

Mike

[sikal]

Originally posted by krys


I agree, although it is less important than in most Arnis styles....

Depends on the system of Silat you study. In some, like Talio Silat (I've not trained in it, but I've had some exposure to it), the triangle is of pivotal importance (if you're familiar with the way they use the triangle, then you'll see pun in that sentence). And, in fact, I've stolen one of their triangle concepts for my own teaching because while it doesn't change the techniques any, it does make it easier to see. The specific concept I'm talking about is that if you take a triangle (any triangle) on the body - for instance, the head at the point and the hips at the base - now you put a hand on the front of the head and a hand on the back of the head and you "invert" the triangle (push the head back and down and the hips forward and up), you disrupt their balance. If they don't go down from that alone, they'll be ripe for a sweep or other takedown. Or they'll be off balance and a great target for striking. Or you'll have time to exit or get a weapon while they recover their balance.

In Serak Silat, the triangle is used a lot, also, and a lot of time is spent there (Langkah Tiga) in the early stages of training. In later stages of training, there are other triangles attached to the Langkah Tiga and you start seeing triangles everywhere.

In fact, it was my introduction to Langkah Lima in Silat Serak that made me realize that the male triangle in kali could also be used as an entry instead of just as a retreat.

Mike

[Keeper]

"In fact, it was my introduction to Langkah Lima in Silat Serak that made me realize that the male triangle in kali could also be used as an entry instead of just as a retreat."

Could you elaborate on that a little?

(the male triangle is the one with the point facing north, right??)

Keeper

[sikal]

Originally posted by Keeper
"In fact, it was my introduction to Langkah Lima in Silat Serak that made me realize that the male triangle in kali could also be used as an entry instead of just as a retreat."

Could you elaborate on that a little?

(the male triangle is the one with the point facing north, right??)

Keeper

Yup. Since I don't feel qualified to do justice to an elaboration of Langkah Lima in Silat Serak, I'll assume you want elaboration on the usage of the male triangle as an entry

Put your feet at the base of the male triangle and face the point of the triangle. Your attacker is standing just north of the point of the triangle. When he throws a straight punch, he's coming down your center line (which is right through the third point of the male triangle). By stepping with either foot along the triangle while bringing your hands up, you will cut the line of his attack (this is the same principle Tony Blauer calls the "Spear" and I've heard referred to as the "Dive" or "Cutting the Tool" in Silat and "Cutting the Line" in Kali). Your hands, of course, aren't just coming up. They're attacking something - the incoming tool and/or the body/head. And as you step, you'll likely end up on or near the attacker's lead foot and have a trip/trap/sweep pretty available.

Make sense?

Mike

[krys]

I got the impression that in many Javanese silat systems triangular footwork is fundamental... all the setia hati styles use triangular footwork.. in indonesian setia hati terrare whe had to make complex triangular forms with sticks and step along them following different patterns....

In the filipino silat system I study beginners start by learning triangular footwork, the next stage is linear footwork (recoiling-advancing explosive movements where you gather momentum and rush into your opponent) with changes of height; selected students learn the circular footwork, looks like Bagua i.e. you move in a circular way very close to your opponent continuously changing directions while striking-catching-traping, obscuring your opponent's vision...

Absolutely. The triangle is the basic component of most (if not all) the balance disruptions.

Russian martial arts also use this concept.... the question mark is another important method to break the balance....

[sikal]

Originally posted by krys
Russian martial arts also use this concept.... the question mark is another important method to break the balance....

Every system I've been exposed to that does balance disruptions uses the triangle concepts - though some don't explain it with triangles.

Can you explain the "question mark"? I think I know what you're refering to but am not sure.

Mike