responsibility of the filipino martial arts instructor

[thekuntawman]

all martial arts instructors feel like they have skills that can save somebodys life. i think most martial arts instructors feel like they have a responsibility to teach others, because there style will one day save that students life also. but the martial arts teacher has a responsibility to teach life saving technique to his students, and save his most dangerous techniques for the ones who have earned this information.

i think a better way to address the "sayoc, legitimate or..." should be changed to what should be taught to beginners.

i disagree that a beginner should be taught your most dangerous techniques first, which includes how to use the knife. in my system, the knife is a beginner technique, and i do teach a little of it, but only to beginners level two and three. at the beginning when i am teaching stick and empty hand, i teach how to cut with the knife because it helps the student develop a better hit with the stick, and to give them something to use when fighting against the knife. now even the stick can kill, but we have a responsibility to teach basic use of the stick, and when a student been there long enough, he can then learn how to use the stick to do the most damage to the opponent.

going to the knife, my personal opinion is that we should not teach how to use it to students we do not know. but if you do, it should follow a short period when you had more time to get to know these students. even regular emtpy hands, and eskrima, can be like putting a gun in a somebodys hand, when they have skill, but a screw loose in his head. many times, you can figure it out in a few months of teaching. but for those times you cant, that is the risk a teacher takes when he is training students. its not much different than selling a sporty car to a teenager, give a drivers license to a drunkard, or issue a gun permit to a nut case. you just never know.

but filipino martial arts knife fighting, i dont believe should be put on video, or taught in seminars.

[roz]

wonderful thread
i believe that the foundation alone can keep someone busy for a good length of time and then the techniques can start. like you stated going from the knife hand to a stick hand will make a crisp stick, and going to empty hands from that point makes a slicer and dicer hand(beautiful trapping hands). yes it is up to the instructor to decide when to educate the student, and the instructor should not be worried about losing his income, for a true hearted student will stick from thick to thin

[Sun_Helmet]

but filipino martial arts knife fighting, i dont believe should be put on video, or taught in seminars.

A criminal mindset will knife someone with it regardless of whether or not he saw it on video, or took a seminar. Knife homicides happen on a daily basis around the world. It will happen today, tomorrow and it has happened before cameras were invented.

Place a knife in anyone's hands and all of a sudden- it takes YEARs of training to subdue them.... that's if you've even trained in any realistic knife scenarios.

We can choose to think of ourselves as having secret knowledge that is harmful to outsiders, but the only people getting harmed are those denying what a real knife encounter will do to them.

If there are FMA students who want to learn how to use the knife then they have the CHOICE of waiting til their instructors offer it to them (which we in Sayoc Kali do not condemn) or begin to take outside lessons and supplement their knowledge with seminars and videos (which Sayoc Kali does not have a monopoly on- the more the better).

The same was said of Asians teaching non Asians ANY martial art, Filipinos teaching non Filipinos, Fil-Ams teaching while not living in the islands, MAs teaching stick (a bludgeoning weapon) compared to empty hand.

Bludgeoning homicides also occur daily in the world, so do strangulations and all sorts of unpleasant realities. Teaching the realities of it on a video or seminar is moving forward by arming the potential victims - the people who actually train in MAs or seek knowledge legally instead of in finding 'secrets' in prison yards and gangs.

With the hundreds of students we've had in our system, it will be a total aberration IF one unfortunately ever decided to go postal. A criminal mindset will seek the easy way always...not the dedication it takes to learn lessons.

For every second you're training, remember that someone out there has trained a day using a shank intended for an innocent.

As a student:
1. trust yourself
2. place the responsibility on yourself
3. never stop learning
4. A criminal doesn't need videos/seminars to kill you, but how well will you cope with the reality that he knows something you don't?

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali
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[Hakoko]

4. A criminal doesn't need videos/seminars to kill you, but how well will you cope with the reality that he knows something you don't?

Very well said Tuhon Raf.

[kuntawguro]

we are different

I take pride that when a student chooses to train with me he walks away from the first class with skills that might save his life. Reality, wether it is knife defense, defense against a grab- punch- or any threat. Unlike techniques that are taught in the mcdojos where you x block a knife attack or just outer block a punch. Having the theory of the knife as a basis makes our arts more realistic and allows for more protection for the student. As an instructor , you know who is sincere and who is in it for the quick technique. I don't waste my time with those I feel will use it to bully or misuse it. They generally don't last long in my class. My job is that of a guide, I find out where they want to go and help them get there. I don't try to make clones of myself.
My 2 cents

[sercuerdas]

yes a person makes their own choices and don't need knife skills to kill someone. but i believe it is a total cop out to teach knife skills to someone you don't really know and then leave all the liablity on them.
rob

[kuntawguro]

yes a person makes their own choices and don't need knife skills to kill someone. but i believe it is a total cop out to teach knife skills to someone you don't really know and then leave all the liablity on them.
rob

Isn't that what is done on a daily basis- you buy aspirin and it says on the label 1 or 2 within such and such time frame- if the person chooses to take 25 , it's their responsibilty.
To give knowledge to someone without those guidelines is poor and a cop out. But for someone to use improperly is bad wisdom. You can give someone knowledge, you can help them to obtain the skill, but they have to learn the wisdom of when to use it.

[sercuerdas]

the difference is if they take to many aspirin they suffer. the don't cut or stab someone else to death. thats also why some drugs are over the counter but others are only by perscribtion(e.g. less then lethal vs. knife).

[Sun_Helmet]

Isn't that what is done on a daily basis- you buy aspirin and it says on the label 1 or 2 within such and such time frame- if the person chooses to take 25 , it's their responsibilty.
To give knowledge to someone without those guidelines is poor and a cop out. But for someone to use improperly is bad wisdom. You can give someone knowledge, you can help them to obtain the skill, but they have to learn the wisdom of when to use it.

Well put.

There is no scientific cut off point that guarantees a student will not then turn around and use the knowledge unwisely.

The only control an instructor has is allowing people to have access to MAKE a choice of studying the knife to save their life, or their loved ones.

More people die of vehicular accidents than anyone who ever studied knife seminars and videos. Some are even vehicular homicides. It happens daily, yet we allow instructors to teach people how to drive a car.

No one is FORCING students to take seminars, often times they are driving hundreds of miles, and then finding a training partner to work the lessons. We do offer them that CHOICE. That still takes decication to get to a point where concepts start to sink into muscle memory.

INSTINCT is all that is required to KILL with a knife. That's not why people sell videos and instruction. That's granted.

TRAINING is required to SURVIVE a knife attack. That's why people buy videos.

From my POV I don't look at our students as the criminals, I look at them as people who are seeking the information to SURVIVE.

No matter how much influence we THINK we have on a student, it ultimately ends up in the student's own judgement. Without guidance or instruction from those of us who are in the positions of offering them, then they are open to Any influence- maybe not so good.

These students are adults and if they do not care about right from wrong, then no instructor is gonna change their hearts. I think it is a cop out to think that the seminar/video knife instruction will NOT save more lives compared to leading others to commit some criminal act BASED on lessons they learned from a video.

No stats support the idea that seminars/videos are used by the wrong people, and none of my thirty plus years in MAs support this.


--Rafael--
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[kruzada]

thats also why some drugs are over the counter but others are only by perscribtion(e.g. less then lethal vs. knife).

That's an interesting thought. Much of what is taught in the FMA (particularly knife), can be so dangerous if misused, that one has to wonder if there should be two different types of curriculums for every system. One for the general public ("over the counter"); non-lethal, or less dangerous, purely defensive skills, and a seperate curriculum with nothing withheld ("prescription"), taught only to a hand picked group that you know that you can trust.