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  • #16
    There are other aspects of the FMA that will help develop attributes for empty handed systems like MT. Check out Panantukan (Filipino boxing), and if you school doesnt teach it already, look up the info on it and begin some of the footwork drills yourself.

    If you need a reason, look at Muhammad Ali. He made it no secret that his footwork derived from Filipino training, and he was lauded as having incredible footwork and ability to maintain distance. Bruce Lee even admired Ali for his footwork and watched films of his fights to learn from it.

    A good thing about Panantukan is that most aspects of it that apply to MT (everything but the destructions basically) can be practiced alone. No need to find a partner like when you want to practice Hubud or Sumbrata, you will only need enough room to do some shadowboxing. Panantukan has a great system for learning ambidexterity and can quickly help a fighter feel comfortable in either lead, teach you to switch leads quickly (great after some of the rear MT kicks) and even use false leads to confuse your opponents.

    If you arent already learning it at your school, it wouldnt hurt you at all to get some information on Panantukan and practice footwork drills on your own.

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    • #17
      "Also, if you've got a story of when FMA actually saved your ass, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me..."

      Hello Cfr,

      Here's a couple of street stories that may inspire you. I will not use any names for obvious reasons...I will just call them AKP (Atienza Kali practitioners).

      Story 1:
      This took place in the mid 90's, NYC. AKP worked in OTB (taking bets) and got into an arguement with a man who lost alot of money betting on a horse. The man seemed a little crazy and blamed the AKP for his loss and said he who come back and "take care of him".

      At lunch time the AKP leaves to get somthing to eat and sees the man walking quickly down the street with his hands in his pockets. There was construction going outside. Him picked up a 16" support bar (just in case) and put it in his sleeve. The man walks up to him and words are exchanged..then man then reaches back into his pocket with his right hand and attmepts to push the AKP with his left. The AKP slides the bar out of his sleeve and goes to work. A fractured radius and ulna in the left hand, shattered elbow in the right and a shattered knee cap later the cops show up. The man is crawling on the floor. The cops find a locked loaded .32 automatic in the mans jacket. Charges were never filed.

      Story 2:
      Late 90's, NYC.
      AKP riding the E train afternoon rush hour. A man starts touching a woman on the train in a sexual manner. The man starts getting very aggressive and tears the womans shirt off. Remeber this is during rush our...tons of people on board. The woman has a boyfriend with her that is terrified but decides to help at the calls for help from his girlfriend. The man starts to beat the boyfriend...the boyfriend starts screaming for help from the other passengers. AKP who is on the train decides that this is enough and starts working on the man (empty handed). During the first few strikes the AKP realizes the man is high and the AKP decides to open up a little more. This fight ended with the man unconscience and convulsing with blood flowing from his eyes and nose "like a waterfall". I will not go intot he details of the exchange, but the AKP did use kicks and use open hand strikes.
      The AKP was 5'8" the man was 6'4". The AKP was carrying a blade but decided not to use it.

      You have to remember where this combat system comes from. Alot of these kali practioners come from some of the roughest areas in the Philippines. Where street fights are done, at the bare minimum, with knives. We are talking about 9 year old kids to 60 year old people with blades and guns.

      Its for REAL REAL encounters. Alot of this stuff is not for the ring with gloves and coaches. It is accepted as a fact that during the engangement that another person will poke you in the back, so we fight as if that will happen.

      So before you get BORED...ask yourself if this is something you want. Have you seen any real crazy street encounters. How hard do you train to make what you learn really work?

      Kali really shines in those situations where you think you may die...even after years 25 yrs of training you are still nervous that you body shakes from adrenaline and fear. Realizations to the fact that even after 25 yrs of training that there is a high chance that a kid in the street can still kill you. You see that point and edge coming at you and you react with what you train. Not because your teacher said it would work because you have to survive.

      .....some thought and experiences from Atienza side.....


      We have alot more "stories" like this but they are not fitting for a public forum....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by two sword
        We have alot more "stories" like this but they are not fitting for a public forum....
        Well then how about emailing them to me??? These are pretty cool.

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        • #19
          No disrespect intended cfr...

          the good ones are a little too incriminating....

          and I don't want write about the ones where we lost to mass attacks

          youth and ego...isn't it a great combination

          great talking to brother!

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          • #20
            Guro Carl, you hit too close too home sometimes LOL! there are some stories betta left untold!

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            • #21
              uh oh...

              someone else who has good battle tales but keeps it to himself...thats the way to go.

              Hi Haumana2000...just trying to represent the FMA the best I can...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by two sword
                No disrespect intended cfr...

                the good ones are a little too incriminating....

                and I don't want write about the ones where we lost to mass attacks

                Fair enough.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by cfr
                  Ive been getting pretty bored lately with FMA. (IM really referring to double sticks here) I train @ a school thats a mix of FMA/ Muay Thai/ Silat/ and JKD. My main interests are in MT. Im starting to wonder if my FMA training is worthless. My instructor says that weapons training helps your empty hand training. I beleive that, but dont know to what extent. Whats your take on that concept. Not from what you've read, but what you've done/ seen. It just keeps going through my head, "when will I ever be walking down the road with these 2 sticks" bla bla bla... Also, if you've got a story of when FMA actually saved your ass, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me...
                  yes weapons training helps your empty hand techniques. take sinawali for example. if you can do that without hitting yourself (especially with live blades) you have effectively made yourself aware of your limbs' location at any given moment. you don't gettangled up. In a grappling situation this allows you to focus on striking a grappler rather than playing by his rules.

                  the sticks are abstract, they can be anything. to me it's the fountain pen hanging on my lapel. it's always ready to convert from writing instrument to stabbing weapon. if you can duck a stick you can duck a punch cant you? the weapons training is faster giving you faster reflexes. and also weapons training makes you respect a weaponed opponent. you don't stance up and kiai like crazy that's gets you killed. the FMA knows reality, in a fight you get hurt. that readiness in itself is a big tool.

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                  • #24
                    You may never be walking down that road with two sticks, but the stick is only the training tool for the blade anyway. The speed of the sticks will help shorten reaction times, but only if you're doing the SYSTEM of Filipino Martial Arts. I've been studying this art since 1974 and continue my practice following the 3 rules in the street. 1) There are no rules! 2) Cheat! 3) Remember the first two rules!

                    Sadly I have found that most people believe this is a fighting skill. It is not! It is a finishing skill, where the bad guy always has the weapon. Train the empty hand as you would train any of the Sinawali, train with blades as well, not sharp until you've mastered the drill, then train with real blades. Do not make a mistake, you will bleed. In the truth of FMA it's a very simple principle we follow in the street. It doesn't mater what you do. It doesn't matter what I do, it only matters CAN I STOP YOU NO MATTER WHAT! Until you train FMA, as real Kali Silat is to train you may never realize why these arts are so important. Furthermore until you've traveled to the Philippines you may just be scratching the service of everyone that has been joining this band wagon of FMA, so to speak. I've found that most everywhere I've taught seminars (over 100) that everybody says they do FMA, that still have no idea what FMA is about. When you learn properly you'll find that I must know what to do instinctly, or leave.

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                    • #25
                      Probably because it's more then just double sticks, try using one hand and one stick for some of your sinawali drills. Try using the empty hands instead. Work on a simple principle, "Can you stop me? Or can I stop you no matter what you do?" A SinaTirsiaWali concept. SinaTirsiaWali was derived from Dekiti Tirsia, that begot Pekiti Tirsia, that begot SinaTirsiaWali, meaning everything in close quarter, and everything is weave, avoid being hit at all costs, do not fight, finish your opponent. Want more? Check us out, 37 years in Kali Silat visit us at: Kali Silat New or http://PekitiTirisa.com or Kali Silat New or Kali Silat New - I conduct seminars world wide, and I've found many people like yourself that just don't understand, this is not a fighting skill, if you can't finish your opponent you have wasted your time. Oh, by the way, try using your empty hands against the weapons also. Good luck, don't give up, there's more to Kali Silat then sticks, there are knives, long blades, empty hands, chains, ropes, the yo-yo and a host of exotic blades. Regards, Greg Alland

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by cfr View Post
                        Also, if you've got a story of when FMA actually saved your ass, I would dig hearing it. Perhaps it would inspire me...
                        Here:
                        Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

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                        • #27
                          It was New Year's Eve I was just going home about 2AM on the NYC subway. 6 guys came into the car I was sitting in, the first strutting down toward me, with a broken gold chain, stopped at the exit across from me. The next two, one on each side of me, two more across from me, the last one standing up. I knew the guy at the door's job was to hold the door until every one was out. So nothing was going to happen until the train stopped. Sitting next to the door another passenger obviously from India was watching the event. Me, I started to breath deeply, long breaths, slowly in and out, with my eyes open wide. This continued for the next 5 to 7 minutes, and I knew nothing was to happen yet. Watching me they spoke among themselves, me, just kept breathing, my gold chain hanging out I waited. I looked crazy, they must have decided to cancel the plan. Long slow breaths, I mean, what am I going to do against 5 guys, the sixth he job was to hold the door until everyone was out. Me, I just kept breathing long slow with eyes wide open. Train stopped, the guy at the door stepped out, held the door, surprisingly they all stepped out one by one, the last of them took a long swing at the guy from India, he ducked and that guy hit the subway car with a hard slap, I knew it hurt you could hear him cursing and shaking his hand. The train started out they all cursed and shook their fists at me, we laughed. Not a single hit, I just kept my wits about me. I mean what was I going to do against 5 guys all younger then me, I was about 55 at the time? So I just remembered what my teacher said long ago. "Use your mind, it's better then your fist!" From the late Suryadi Jafri, Jakarta, Indonesia.

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                          • #28
                            hi cfr

                            what you are feeling is natural for a fighting man, when you are in a class that is not connecting the FMA to fighting. this is my biggest complaint with FMA people (it's also why lots of people don't like me, they don't like to hear the truth). the truth of most FMA is that is almost all drill and "defense", and almost never attack or sparring. one of the reason for this is that the teachers themselves dont spar with any kind of skill or knowledge, if they spar at all. if you want a good example, ask the FMA teacher if he fights in tournaments. then when you get excuses you have your reason.

                            what is muay thai, but a tournament? what about nhb? tournament. what about the "matches" the old masters fought that they like to brag so much about? tournament. so why does the FMA master afraid so much of tournaments and sparring?

                            because its what you discovered, being a fighter. this stuff we are doing is not fighting, i dont see the connection. so how do they prove this stuff works? more drills, more "defense", more "if you do this than i do that", more ways to show you he can fight, without fighting.

                            but the FMA can improve your fighting skills mostly with your hands, but you have to go to a teacher who fights. there is just too many people teaching the arts without qualifications for this art to be convincing to a man who fights. too many FMA as a side dish to some guys other art. too many FMA guys who never fought against opponents (not training partners, not friends, i said "opponents"). when the teacher doesnt engage in matches, then he cannot teach you to engage in them. so what you end up with is, learning the same stuff he learned in his seminars... drills, patty cake, and "defenses".

                            and "that comes later", attributes and other reasons to make you wait is garbage. but you, yourself, you can connect it your self. yes, its true you are not going to walk down the street with sticks. but the first thing to do is to learn to fight with your sticks. get with other fighters and get it on. do it a lot, and there is a lot your own teacher (i am not saying he isnt qualified, but i am talking about FMA in general) cannot teach you. the great things about fighting is that the best lessons are self thought. as many styles of fighting that you can develop, will help your fighting over all. stck fighting, if anything, will teach the empty hands how to destroy a man with your strong hand. its not like boxing, but blugening. and if you are going to have this kind of fighting, you cant waste time with sinawali and give and take and dsiarming. there is so much to learn and develop with just using that one stick as the weapon its designed to do--beat a guy to death. they are not musical instruments. they are not knives. they are not needle and thread. the stick is a hard weapon that can be used to smash skulls, break bones, and if you use it right, the fist can do it just as good.

                            i have more i have to say, but i'll come back to it.

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                            • #29
                              Hahaha no I didn't know that

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                              • #30
                                Actually, everything is the same, try all the drills of sinawali with one stick, and just hands, it all wines down to, "Can I stop you? Or you stop me? No matter what!"

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