Muahammad Ali...Filipino martial arts.

[RapidAssault16]

I read in one of the recent posts that Muhammad Ali worked with Filipino training methods, and as a result his distance and footwork were superb...is that true? Who did he train with? Maybe this is common knowledge...I'm probably just out of the loop lol.

[Serrada]

True and I don't know.

[Boxing Master]

Who was this training and what Filipino art footwork did he train Ali with?

I read in one of the recent posts that Muhammad Ali worked with Filipino training methods, and as a result his distance and footwork were superb...is that true? Who did he train with? Maybe this is common knowledge...I'm probably just out of the loop lol.

Please let me know the name of the trainer and the style that he trained Ali with.

[MAMike]

FMA Boxing

For some informations you can also read at: http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/articles/fmabox.html

All the best, Mike

[shuyun]

one annecdote i heard was that he saw arnisadors practicing in hawaii or something. forgot my source

[Boxing Master]

Ali's footwork

I read the article sent by MAMike,

One thing though, it said that he was close to Llorde in Hawaii, and either he taught Ali, or he saw someone do it. When was Ali in Hawaii? He has been using his dancing footwork since the Olympics in 1960. Please give me some clarification according to the timeline.

[Sun_Helmet]

Elorde

I met the great FLash Elorde as a child since he was best friends with my uncle. My unlce was the 'godfather' of one of Flash's sons. I never knew Elorde's father was an eskrimador until twenty plus years later when the same uncle was visiting my family. I was in the backyard doing some training with a stick and blade. He called out from the porch and said something akin to "Hey just like Tatang Elorde!". Of course my ears perked up and I stopped immediately to ask him more about Flash's father.
He said that all the boxers knew Tatang Elorde was an eskrimador and they would ask him to show them his footwork or some double stick movements. He sounded like he was well respected by the boxers. He said he specialised in long and short.
As far as Ali studying directly, I think it wasn't a direct training, but an influence in the way Flash moved from whatever Ali saw of Elorde's fights. I know Ali spoke of the Filipino 'bolo' punch during the Thrilla in Manila promos as well. His style blends well with weapons fighting since he is tries to stick and move and not to trade punches - especially when he was younger. Check out the Dogbrothers.com forum - there's an excellent thread there on this subject.

--Rafael--
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[Sun_Helmet]

Filipino Boxing

Decided to revive this thread after recently viewing some old film of Pinoy Boxers. As much as books and articles describe the action, the footage speak for themselves.

Now this is not to say other fighters moved this way based on their country of origin, but suffice to say the footage does show an English/Western fighter versus a Filipino in the early era of Boxing as sport we know today.

World Flyweight Championship 1937
Small Montana (aka Benjamin Gan, he's the Pinoy) versus Benny Lynch

If ever Filipino 'footwork' may have influenced Ali this is a good evidence of it.
Gan has a smooth subtle rhythmic bounce to his timing which is very reminiscent of Ali. His jab, especially as he slides away looks much like Ali's. Jab and move.

Guards:
The Englishman ? Lynch would hold his lead left straighter, farther from his hips similar to Wilde's above.
The Filipino Gan's left lead is tucked ala Ali's along his side.
Surprisingly, Gan even does a slight 'ali' shuffle as he zones out of the punches.

Gan would be bouncing prior to striking ala Ali. Then slide back and bounce away. The bounce was more a timing gauge as it set up his shots rather than recover.

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BOLO Punch:

Filipino World Champ, Ceferino Garcia was who Ali attributed his 'bolo' punch to, and Garcia credited it to using a bolo when he worked in the sugar cane fields in Hawaii.

Ali would have had access to these films for study.

--Rafael--
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[haumana2000]

I have the Great Pinoy Boxing collection in my home library, a great treat for boxing afficianados, and one which I make my young pinoys take home, and write a report on, when they start at our training club. I agree that the footwork, and more noticeably the stance is inherently "Filipino-like". I wonder if there is any old Elorde fottage floating around? Another thing I would love to see is a video from Tanny-Campo on Old school Pinoy style boxing. I know there are a couple of tapes from some american instructors which are ok. But I would love to see one from one of the manong's before the knowledge or opportunity is gone from us. Especially, some of the old training methods, or "dirty-Tricks" pangamut styles. I remember seeing a Filipino fight here about three years ago named "Ronnie Longakit" and watched him dismantle his opponent with that same stance but I never had the opportunity to ask him about it.