Who is the heir to Pekiti-Tirsia?

[Mr. Gordo]

I came across two websites:

http://www.pt-go.com/about_intro.asp

http://www.pekiti.com/

The first one claiming that the heir to Leo T. Gaje's Pekiti-Tirsia is his son, Leo Gaje Jr. with his U.S. representative, Timothy D. Waid.

The second one, having Bill McGrath as the heir to Leo T. Gaje in Pekiti-Tirsia.


I've always thought that Bill McGrath was the heir to Leo T. Gaje. Can anyone clarify this? Thanks.


Mr. Gordo

[T-3]

Bill McGrath and Tuhon are no longer associated with eachother. There was apparently a change of "philosophy." The first site you list is the correct site: www.pt-go.com McGrath, I believe, is still actively involved in Pekiti; however, without the association of Tuhon. It's unfortunate considering that McGrath was a prodigy of Tuhon.

[Mr. Gordo]

Yeah, I've been doing some more research and it seems that "Timothy D. Waid" only started studying Pekiti-Tirsia in 88. "Bill McGrath" seems to have trained much earlier in 1975. Tom Bisio and Bill McGrath seems to be the two prodigies of Pekiti-Tirsia. Bisio having left Pekiti-Tirsia to study San Miguel Eskrima and Ba Gua, with Bill McGrath to be left as the most senior of the Pekiti-Tirsia members. What's boggling my mind is how Timothy D. Waid was chosen as "succesor." ???

I imagine McGrath (who IMHO does have the complete system of Pekiti-Tirsia) started studying with other kali teachers, and Gaje did not appreciate this (which seems typical with the elders in the martial arts subculture). I imagine Gaje pretty much screwed McGrath out of his rightful position as succesor because he didn't approve of McGrath cross training with other teachers, and gave succesorship to Timothy Waid.

Can anyone else clarify on this? Does my theory sound about right, or am I off?



Mr. Gordo

[yenhoi]

I doubt Gaje would have a problem with any of his students cross-training, and from what Ive heard of the man, If he wanted to screw you, he would probably stab you. He also doesnt sound much like a person who cares much for lineages and titles. Either are many of his direct students.

[Mr. Gordo]

Question answered:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15205

[EmptyneSs]

i think i might be the heir

[george stando]

Eric "Top Dog" Knauss was also a top student of GT Gaje.

[Airyu]

Hello Everyone,

I have seen this thread on a few forums so I thought I would add some information to give people a better understanding on a few points.

1)The heir to Pekiti Tirsia Kali, as taught by GT. Gaje, will most likely be his son. Not any of the people mentioned such as Tim Waid, William McGrath..etc, etc. In fact, in one of the certificates I have from Tuhon Gaje it names his son to take over if he GT Gaje passes on. I am sure that all the other senior Instructors in the PTK organization know and realize this.

2)The issues between the Sayoc organization and the PTK organization, is mostly because of relative new people in an organization coming out with things they have heard second or third hand. When I routinely spoke with Tuhon Gaje, he never spoke ill of Tuhon Sayoc, and I speak with Tuhon Sayoc all the time and he never speaks ill of Tuhon Gaje. The Sayoc Family have been teaching their family art as well as researching and developing it continuously. Tuhon Sayoc recognizes his training in Pekiti Tirsia, as well as several other arts, all the time. There are no ill feelings from the Sayoc Kali organization towards the Pekiti Tirsia Kali practitioners.

3)DTK vs PTK, again more politics. But having talked and trained with many people, GT Nene Tortal was a great person to meet and train with. I highly recommend you meet and train with either GT Gaje, or GT Tortal!!

With all the politics constantly spewing out in the FMA world, the best advice I would give you is look at many sources of information, train with as many people/masters that you can, then make your own judgments on what you find best suits you!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.bujinkandojo.net

[kaliace]

3)DTK vs PTK, again more politics. But having talked and trained with many people, GT Nene Tortal was a great person to meet and train with. I highly recommend you meet and train with either GT Gaje, or GT Tortal!!

With all the politics constantly spewing out in the FMA world, the best advice I would give you is look at many sources of information, train with as many people/masters that you can, then make your own judgments on what you find best suits you!!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

www.bujinkandojo.net

Guru Steve,

Thank you for this post. I agree with your interpretation. With the PT and DTS I would have to say it is a family thing, along with Politics. Either way I do not belive it is a good idea to get in-between the two. I have trained with Grand Master Jerson Tortal but have not trained with Tuhon Gaje. I did train with Greg Alland, but now I am not sure how much of it was Pekiti Tirsia.

I have dedicated my training too primarily to Dekiti Tirsia Siradas, but I would never turn down the chance to learn different styles. They all have their place; DTS fits what I was looking for.

Thank you again,
Michael G Olive

https://www.rattanclub.com

[Airyu]

Hello Michael,

Thank you for your reply! Grand Master Tortal, is a great person to train with, not only highly skilled but down to earth as well. I met and trained with him on his first tour here in the states, but I have tried to stay in contact with him over the last few years as well. I also fully agree to stay out of the family/politics that only stand in the way of a person's training development.

I look forward to meeting you sometime in the future!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[kaliace]

Guru Steve,

I think I might have “talked” to you on the Sayoc forum as well. I would very much like to meet you. It would be an honor.

We are working hard to make Grand Master Jerson Tortal’s presence official here in the United States. I will try to keep you informed on new opportunities to train with him in the near future.

Respectfully,
Michael G Olive

https://www.rattanclub.com

[themorningstar]

kaliace, i just wanted to ask, how long have you studied with gm tortal? oh and how many people are out there qualified to teach DTS? i might be looking for someone to train with in the bay area.... thanks!

[kaliace]

kaliace, i just wanted to ask, how long have you studied with gm tortal? oh and how many people are out there qualified to teach DTS? i might be looking for someone to train with in the bay area.... thanks!

Hello,

I am not sure where you mean by the bay area? I am here in the Midwest so it is hard to know what way to point. There are several people on both coasts, just let me know and I will try to find someone for you.

PS What is your name? The Morning Star sounds familiar; I think it is a paper in Norfolk or Virginia Beach?

Respectfully,
Michael G Olive

[themorningstar]

i live in the san francisco bay area, i just wanted to know if you knew anyone in the area that teaches dekiti tirsia?, i was also inquiring about how long you studied with the grandmaster because on your website it says that you are a senior instructor in the art. i was only curious, that's all... no malice... thanks!
sal

[kaliace]

i live in the san francisco bay area, i just wanted to know if you knew anyone in the area that teaches dekiti tirsia?, i was also inquiring about how long you studied with the grandmaster because on your website it says that you are a senior instructor in the art. i was only curious, that's all... no malice... thanks!
sal

No worries, well sometimes I do, but I am a little cautious on that. I can’t think of anyone in San Francisco area right now. I will check to see if there is anyone close. We are just starting to form Grand Master Jerson Tortal’s USA organization.

Senior Instructor, yep sounds impressive. I have trained with Grand Master at several Seminars and he has stayed with me and a student of mine. We trained very intensively the few weeks he was staying with us. I have so far to go before I will start calling myself anything like that. Why is it on my website then? Well here in our little corner several unfortunate events happened. I and my student stood up for Grand Master and would not back down when certain people were trying to “bully” them and us. I was being questioned to Grand Master by the “certain people" on my manhood, and my qualifications. Grand Master told me to put on my website “Senior Instructor [of Dekiti Tirsia Siradas] appointed directly under me, Grand Master Jerson ‘Nene’ Tortal. Then no one will question you again. They will know you are my student.” So that is what I put on the website.

I have learned a lot in the short time I spent with Grand Master and his son Master Jerson Jr. But I have so much more to learn. I just hope I will be able to fill the shoes that Grand Master has entrusted with me.

Respectfully,
Michael G Olive