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Do most FMA systems address the clinch/ takedown? Im pretty certain they dont go in depth with them. But do they at least cover the basics for defending against?
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FMA grappling
Most fma systems due cover clinch work and takedowns-groundfighting. Its most commonly called filipino dumog. A lot of the systems due this full contact with a eskrima-arnis stick. This adds a new twist and a lot more leverage to the empty hand version of the same techniques.
Mahalo, Jeremy -
Originally posted by cfr
More reasons for "Cross Training". Ususally best after you reach Black Belt in a Core System.Comment
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Hello CFR,
I have seen several systems that address the Clinch/takedown range. In Sayoc Kali a majority of blade work will occur at the "corto" range, this will also include various aspects of grappling. In the Sayoc Fighting system, Stick Grappling is also in this "clinch" range. Tuhon Kier has released a new training DVD on this aspect, and it will definitely open your eyes to a few new tricks to add to your repetoire!
Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.
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Point of contention!
I definitely have to disagree with you there, Hardball. Fma is a much more prolific core system than anything I have ever seen. There is a wide variety of systems and popularity is hugh compared to where it was at when I was first introduced to Modern Arnis in the late 80's. I have never heard of a FMA Mc DOJO either! This is a system that has been battle tested much more recently than any other asian art. Living Grandmasters that are elderly are only here (on Earth) because they have survived lots of challenge matches. The art is a true street fighting art with a long and bloody history of challenge matches to the death with bladed weapons and the combatons connected at the waist by section of chain so the looser couldn't run away to avoid death. Many Grandmasters also have high ranking black belts in other ma systems and have integrated them into the art, ie.. Doce Pares Escrido-GM Cacoy Canente, combining aikido with eskrima. , Modern Arnis-GM Jeff Delaney, 2nd degree bb in bjj under Rickson Gracie.Originally posted by Hardball
Most JKD schools have some sort of FMA training as part of their core corriculum, and there whole purpous, as you know, is to discard what doesn't work. Sorry to ramble on, but I feel that this is a impostant point to make. FMA is a whole lot more than just banging sticks!
Mahalo, JeremyComment
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Point well taken; I'll keep reading and studying. Which Phillipino system do you recommend?Comment
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Fma
For what it's worth, I started with Modern Arnis. It was created by the late Professor Remy Presas, who traveled all over the phillipines starting at the age of 14 and trained in what were individual styles from the local master and combined them to form a coesive system. This art (once again-just my opinion) will give you a great overall view of what fma has to offer. From it, you can make an educated decision to move on to a system that works on a specific area. If you're looking for something to compliment jujitsu, Doce Pares Eskrima-Eskrido is the way to go, lots of tuite and flowing between joint locks with the extra leverage of a stick. If it's blade, Sayok Kali is great, there moto is "all blade, all the time". Dog brothers is probably the most hard core group of stickfighters out there. There mainly on the west coast, but there motto of "higher consiousness through harder contact" rules. Ultimately it will depend on where you live and whats available to you.Originally posted by Hardball
Mahalo, JeremyComment
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Jeremy,
Are you sure that Mr. Delaney is a BJJ Blackbelt under Rickson?
I have never seen him listed
A.S.
My choices for a good FMA system with Grappling would be Pekiti Tirsia, Dog Brothers (Crafty's clinch game is very good) and I have seen some good stuff from Derobio.Comment
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[QUOTE=American Shogun]Jeremy,
Are you sure that Mr. Delaney is a BJJ Blackbelt under Rickson?
Yes, yes I am. He's also a 6th degree in a very legitimate Kung Fu system but left it to learn from the professor. Since you said Mr., I can already see where this is going. Don't even need a crystal ball. Way to go , using your first post for a completely pointless purpous, and then chime in when you weren't asked. How can someone go 2 for 2 in worthless comments on their first try? Hopefully you'll decide to sit in silence instead of sharing any or those pearls of wisdom! You've been a membe since 2001, and this was your first post. Kind of anticlimatic, huh. Was it every thing you thought it would be.
Mahalo, JeremyComment
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A little Touchy. Just a question...
A.S.
It was everything I thought it would be.
PeaceComment
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No prob
Sorry if that came off a little strong, I just thought this thread was about to go down a road that's personal and the quickest way to piss me off. If that wasn't your intention, my bad!Comment
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Mordern Arnis is not my style, and I am not a part of those politics. I have been around the BJJ circles for a while and never heard mention of him ( that's why I was asking) I am part of at least 10 or more forums and for whatever reason never posted on this one. No trolling here.
Back to the question:
The FMA represents a mixed bag. Many systems incorporate other martial arts ie. Aikido, judo. Others developed their own way of grappling. I have seen a variety of FMA approaches. Some fit my style others did not. Most dumog tends to be street focused. Hard to apply in a sport situation without injury. Hence you will not see the dumog part of a system in watching a wekaf tourney. GT Gaje's Pekiti Tirsia's dumog is very devasting. It is amazing to see him apply it and very painfull to have it worked on you. The Dog Brother's approach reflects a variety of influences (Silat, BJJ, Bando, PTK, etc...) Many people do not have many choices due to loaction and money. If you live in SoCal, You can be picky.
A.S.Comment
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Dumog rules!
You're absolutely right, A.S., in everything you said. Jeff Delaney trained formally in bjj at a time when it wasn't available to the general population and most of your training came from trips to Brazil. He doesn't teach it separately, and doesn't advertise it, but uses it to enhance his own art and concertrates on the more combat aspects of bjj, rather than the sport side. There are a whole group of legitamite bjj practitioners who started about 20 years ago, through the military mostly, who aren't household names and have become disenchanted with the sport aspects of bjj, which have become the more popular version being spread throughout the mainland. There was a definite need to make bjj more safe and accessable to the mainland, to help it grow to the status it holds today. Unfortunately, some people feel it's come to a point where the main focus (at least for them) has been somewhat lost along the way. If you look at some of the other threads that have been posted ( I'm sure you have) you'll see people that view bjj as just a sport and not as the combat art that it is and that may be the reason why people like Royce Gracie are now coming out with bjj street defense books.
Having talked to Hardball on previous threads, dumog would be an excellent way to go, as he doesn't seem to have any problems with harder contact and doesn't shy away from pain, as it tends to let you know that a technique is effective.
Please speak up more often, if you feel like it. It's great to conversate with a ma who knows his stuff. I think your training is very similar to mine, but the little differences are what I hope to learn from.Comment
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Some Sayoc Stick Grappling clips:
http://sayoc.com/vidclips/Internet1.mov
http://sayoc.com/vidclips/Internet2.mov
http://sayoc.com/vidclips/stickgrappling01.mov
--Rafael--Comment
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The lineage tree at www.bjj.org is pretty accurate and generally up-to-date with surprising consistency. I don't see a Jeff Delaney listed. Still, nothing's perfect and I can just ask some of Rickson's reps to verify it.Originally posted by American ShogunJeremy,
Are you sure that Mr. Delaney is a BJJ Blackbelt under Rickson?
I have never seen him listed
Any idea when or where Delaney trained with Rickson? I'm sure Rickson and his other BB reps would remember him. It would be nice to have Delaney recognized on the official list if his credentials are legit.Comment
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