interesting article on bali-song origin

[GonzoStyles]

I found this interesting

http://www.balisongcollector.com/history.html

just goes to show things are not what they seem sometimes

[Sun_Helmet]

Balisong and history by omission

I think the best indicator of who 'invented' the balisong should be based on who is well known for using it and teaching it's use.

Is it the guy who printed a forgotten catalog, or the culture who is known for USING and making the weapon? I think the culture it is known for universally should be a good indication.

'Balisong' does not sound French or Spanish... one would think that a suitable title would be given to so flamboyant a design and usage besides 'pocket knife'. A French sketch and 'idea' does not a knife or invention make. Leonardo Da Vinci sketched a 'Helicopter' but he didn't invent or make it the machine as we know it. Ideas and sketches are easy to come up with, actually realizing and perpetuating the popularity of the actual item in USAGE is a better indicator of who should get credit for it.

Several factors come to mind. First, the evidence is based on engravings on printed matter. Well and good, IF one has the advantage of living closer to a patent office and printing machine... kinda difficult to find one in the islands circa 19th century. Consider that the islands did not have a printing machine of which indigenous Tagalog or any Filipino language was allowed to be printed on in Spanish occupied territories. The closest they could document such a thing would be in the early nineties. If we are basing the balisong on European technology, with such dynamic and fluid movements of the weapon - then perhaps there is evidence of Europeans actually USING one in a manual somewhere or even an illustration. It was prime material for such creative endeavors.

"It certainly disproves the popular myth that the balisong was invented in the Philippines in the early 1900s."

It should be of note that not once did the author consider that the opposite might have happened... that a sailor brought BACK a balisong to Europe and that some wily knife seller took the design and patented it, printed it in a book and since he didn't know how to use it... it faded into obscurity. Patent history is full of such instances of the patent owner not being the actual inventor.

Now several hundreds of years later a Frenchman invented a weapon no one in France at that time was known to use, and no one in the world knew the French used it UNTIL this catalog popped up.

Easier to invalidate the whole Filipino culture of inventiveness in weapon making and fighting tactics by implying that a culture who had the barong, the Large kris, panabas and other weapons could not conceive of a balisong design but can copy one because it was so easy to make.

Good thing Marco Polo had the decency to credit the Chinese for inventing noodles, what would people say if they found a spaghetti box a hundred years from now?

"Sorry"

Apology accepted.
--Rafael--

[GonzoStyles]

you are funny, are you really that insulted? do you think the honor and history of the philippino culture would somehow be any less if the knife was invented somewhere else? Thats all I was trying to say, when the great king Lapu-Lapu defeated Magellan and his conquistadors do you think they were armed with butterfly knives? relax bro, keep the aggro for the gym its kinda wasted on forums.

[Sun_Helmet]

relax bro, keep the aggro for the gym its kinda wasted on forums.

If it was wasted then why do you reply in such a manner?

Try not to project YOUR emotions into my replies, nor attempt to ADD to the content of my posts. This way you won't have to try to explain anything, since you end up arguing something that I didn't think nor say.

My post contested a theory (one that YOU linked to) before people start thinking it is a fact. That's all. That's how the truth is eventually discovered.

"Just goes to show that things are not what they seem sometimes."

Yes, read my second post again... without attaching YOUR emotions, 'bro'.

--Rafael--

[thekuntawman]

that article does not "prove" that any europeans were the first to create the balisong. what about the stick? if somebody finds a hundreds of years old article with europeans using the stick, it proves that the european created arnis and not the filipino? oh wait, people already said that.

it is possible that the idea of a folding opening knife got created by more than one people. how about, some guy in england made a folding opening knife, and at the same time (or years later) a filipino blade master came up with the same idea. you know the balisong is not so advanced an idea that only one person in all the countries in the world could come up with this idea.

but i think its funny how europeans learn asian martial arts, and then try to find a way that there culture has the same thing, but better, like:

savate vs kickboxing
la canne vs eskrima
any european blade style vs arnis/kendo/any asian blade style
sambo vs jujitsu
MU TAU vs muay thai (brother please!)
old english boxing vs boxing (i will explain)
close quarter combatives/scientific streetfighting/military hand to hand/any style that claims it is not a style and uses full page ad to sell his tapes vs any asian style martial arts
so called modern arts vs so called traditional arts

after years of studying what asia has to offer, it seems to be cultural that some people want to find a way that his own culture is better than that asian culture. most of the WMA guys i know, originally are FMA people but now they claim that WMA or their new western blend is better than the FMA style. or you get some guys who study in martial arts, then find out that EUROPE has martal arts, so they import there old ASIAN style into what little they can get from there WMA, and call it WMA and it's better!

now i dont think everybody is like this, but i know there is plenty of people who dont like to watch boxing because the champions are usually mexican and black, so they claim that todays boxer is nothing compared to the "old" days, you know, when white guys were all the champions...they would say about mike tyson "well he aint no jack dempsey/rocky marciano/you name it" shoot mike tyson would have beat them both up at the same time. then there are the average white fighters who are given so much attention just because they arent getting beat up, we all know what it is: for the last 50 years the boxing world has been looking for the next "great white hope". this is very offensive to fighters and fans of color, who want to be appreciated for his own skill, not because there is no white opponent he is fighting (ask larry holmes about that). especially in america, where race is such an important thing, you always wonder when it will come back up.

in this FMA world we are always battling people who want to rewrite filipino history...magellan "discovered" the philippines, filipinos got eskrima from the spanish, we have no native empty hands art...and people who exploit our masters for high rankings and video tape courses. then there are people who use our arts into there own, as if they created the arts (bando stick fighting/korean double stick). the spanish wrote our history as if we are not smart enough to know or keep our own. the americans talk about "saving" us from the japanese and the spanish, and "protecting" us with their bases. is the bragging rights to a recognised FILIPINO blade so important? whats wrong with saying, "look! we had one too!" instead of "they got it from us". how often does the filipino criticise foreign martial artists who use our sinawali for japanese weapons, or men who spend money to marry our women, or business people who buy 50 cent sticks and sell them in american for $20. excuse me i am rambling.

so GonzoStyles you have to understand why the filipino (or any asian) will get pissed off when we read this, somebody who is making a claim to anything we call our own or to wash away the little history we have about ourselves.

[GonzoStyles]

So what if one weapon out of the many in FMA might have been made in another non-asian country BFD you guys are taking this waaaaaay to seriously. Like I said in the previous post, would it lesson FMA one bit if it WAS invented somewhere else? NO!
You guys go off the handle and try to act like I claimed FMA was invented by some englishman in a powdered wig.
Sun Helmet I have read your posts and it seems to me that you respond VERY AGGRO so like I said save it for the gym these are just words tossed around by people over wires. using the "im rubber your glue" technique was very devious though and did catch me off guard
Maybe the Bali-Song (Broken-Horn) was invented in both places at different times, would that be beyond your scope of imagination? it has happened several times in Human history.

the Kris was from Indonesia yet the FMA adopted it into their weaponry
the Sai, nunchaku and tonfa (dont get upset I only know the Japanese name for them!) you will see in many other martial arts from countrys that depend on rice as a staple asthey are farming tools, yet does anyone squabble or who invented them?

or whatever go on praising your holy cow if need be, just funny to me all the fuss over a lil ol' pig-sticker!

[Sun_Helmet]

So what if one weapon out of the many in FMA might have been made in another non-asian country BFD you guys are taking this waaaaaay to seriously. Like I said in the previous post, would it lesson FMA one bit if it WAS invented somewhere else? NO!

I'm sure it is always better to answer one's own questions, but YES, it would lessen it if the TRURTH was not the TRUTH. Matter of fact the very link you posted is doing the exact same thing I am doing... proposing what could be the truth, just the opposing POV or theory.

However, isn't it interesting that you posted that link without the exact same criteria you are asking Filipinos to follow? What's the big deal that the balisong might have been invented in the Philippines and not in France? Based on your criteria, isn't it MORE absurd that someone is looking into long forgotten copies of catalogues for one date that MIGHT state the balisong did NOT originate from the islands? Why is there a double standard on your part?

You guys go off the handle and try to act like I claimed FMA was invented by some englishman in a powdered wig.

To be accurate, I was not even replying to YOU personally in my first reply, but refering to your LINK. Unless YOU wrote the content in the link. So, it seems another form of projection on your part.

Sun Helmet I have read your posts and it seems to me that you respond VERY AGGRO so like I said save it for the gym these are just words tossed around by people over wires.

Well, "it seems to me" is already an admission that you are projecting emotion into my text. I would suggest you take your own advice. It takes me a second to post in the forums... and you have a quite an interest in logging everyone else's training time while continuing to post yourself.

using the "im rubber your glue" technique was very devious though and did catch me off guard

Being honest and devious are two different matters.

yet does anyone squabble or who invented them?

There's ABUNDANT evidence on each one of the weapons you listed that support that the weapons were used by those cultures.
Just for starters:

1. There's living practitioners (in the thousands collectively) of people who use those weapons (sai, keris, tonfa etc.)

2. There's samples of those weapons in the history of their martial art (unlike the balisong in French history)

3. Anyone can weigh the HUGE evidence of the existence of the sai in Japan or the keris in Indonesia against... one sheet of paper about the balisong in France(who are known to be pretty good at collecting records and writing about themselves/arts/history/culture but just not on this particularly flamboyant blade).

And yet you still conclude MY response to be too aggressive?
If you actually read my first post instead of reacting in the manner you did. You will realize the criteria was answered in there. Even your own arguments support my findings.

or whatever go on praising your holy cow if need be, just funny to me all the fuss over a lil ol' pig-sticker!

This is what is really funny-

I merely posted a COUNTER theory to what you linked to.

You reacted as if that very response somehow:

1. Lessens the training time of the poster (quite a fascination)
2. Diminishes the poster's credibility by 'praising a holy cow' (even though it is supported by facts)
3. Makes them overly aggressive towards you (even though none of it was directed to YOU personally but to the actual subject matter)
4. Reflects the opinions of ALL Filipinos /FMAs.


--Rafael--

[GonzoStyles]

funny I never claimed that the website was somekind of proof, maybe my wording could have been better, my intent was to propose that maybe the balisong came from some where else, JUST AN IDEA yet your reactionary AGGRO response still makes me laugh.

I suggested that other weapons passed from culture to culture without the prejudice that you expressed toward the possible non-asian origin of ONE of the many weapons in FMA
did it ever occur to you that maybe the sailor had the Bali-song knife and traded it to a pinoy? to think that you believe the credibility and integrity of FMA somehow rests on the Bali-song... again too funny

Human nature being what it is the origin of the bali-song may never be known there are many versions of where and when the bali-song came from within philippino culture itself! so explain to me something do you take word of mouth as the gospel, KNOWING the capacity for people and time to distort the truth? your FACTS are hear say nothing more.

and what is all this Freudian "projection" crap?

where did you get the Idea that I was "logging" peoples gym time?
or tryin to suggest anything other than that by virtue of your posts you seem to be a very combative person verbally, and that the expression of your energy would be better put to use in the gym and not on forums.
I never said anything about "training time" that would be you "Projecting" something into my post that I never said nor implied.

trust me Bro I get plenty of training, cross training and then some.

so tell me Sun, who invented to Bow and Arrow? was it the Chinese the Native Americans? or wait your an FMA guy so I guess it was the Pinoy.
truth is it was a common weapon developed by several cultures at different times. But not the Bali-song it is a sacred object that could have only come from the Philippine Islands, right?

If your ever down in Texas hit me up and we'll kick a "Sipa" around, no wait scratch that, you'd probably just want to argue about where it came from.

[Ferdie]

I found this interesting

http://www.balisongcollector.com/history.html

just goes to show things are not what they seem sometimes

I believe this is the cause of all the responses.

Which goes to show things are not what they seem sometimes? Is it that the balisong was invented in the Philippines or that it was invented in France?

The one thing that you should understand is that the ancient Filipinos did not record their everyday lives the way a lot of ancient western people did. Add to that the fact that if they did have any historical records, the Spanish conquistadors TRIED to make sure that any record of paganism was erased from the archipelago to usher in Christianity w/ very little opposition from the “natives”.

The earliest record of the Spanish friars of our alibata or bayabayin (ancient text) was 1593 – way earlier than the record of the supposed French-invented butterfly knife. No, I’m not saying there are records of the balisong back in 1593, but it sure should place a huge different perspective on the matter of when it was possible for the Spaniards to bring back to Europe discovered items from their "conquered discoveries." They always did that… hmm…

Now, it is personally offensive to me that the article you linked to the forums made mention that it is possible for the balisong to be originally made by the old Filipinos because of its very “simple” design – w/c to me, sounded like that we were (are) not capable of designing anything complex. And then the author turned it around, making the impression that even the simplest design of the balisong could not have been thought out by the Filipinos. That it just had to come from the west because they had documentation from as far back as the 1700’s. Well I reference back to my 3rd paragraph.

Now, in 1989 the Laguna Copperplate Inscription was found in a province just 2 hours away from Manila (the capital of the Phil.). Carbon dating proved it to be from 900AD. Whoa! Now we have to push further back the ancient Filipinos’ existence in the archipelago. The inscription was a release of all debt of a man named Namwaram by Honorable Minister Lord Pailah and cleared together w/ three other political leaders from three different provinces. If the Filipinos had this type of governmental system back in 900AD, what makes any of us so sure that they were not capable of making a very “simple” balisong?

Finally, the Kris was never adopted by the FMA community nor by the Filipinos for that matter. Ancient Filipinos (who were in fact Malays) came from the areas of Indonesia & Malaysia by sailboats. Southeast Asians (Filipinos, Indonesians, Malaysians, Burmese, etc.) are connected w/ each other much like East Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, etc.). The kris is a part of our ancient history. So is the panga, the barong, the karit (karambit), the sarong, kulintang (kenong in Indonesia), etc., etc. Heck even the dances & martial arts movements are very, very similar, if not the same.

They are not angry responses. Just emphatic ones from those who do look at things from a different angle.

No disrespect intended to anyone.

[Sun_Helmet]

funny I never claimed that the website was somekind of proof, maybe my wording could have been better, my intent was to propose that maybe the balisong came from some where else, JUST AN IDEA yet your reactionary AGGRO response still makes me laugh.

I didn't say you claimed it either. Unless YOU wrote it. Read my posts again.

I suggested that other weapons passed from culture to culture without the prejudice that you expressed toward the possible non-asian origin of ONE of the many weapons in FMA
did it ever occur to you that maybe the sailor had the Bali-song knife and traded it to a pinoy? to think that you believe the credibility and integrity of FMA somehow rests on the Bali-song... again too funny

Again, you're going around in circles contesting something YOU think I am stating. Read my posts again.

Human nature being what it is the origin of the bali-song may never be known there are many versions of where and when the bali-song came from within philippino culture itself! so explain to me something do you take word of mouth as the gospel, KNOWING the capacity for people and time to distort the truth? your FACTS are hear say nothing more.

You're again answering your own questions. I see a pattern. Why not just ask a straight forward question and also, again TRY to READ what I posted instead of what you want me to write. I suppose the word 'THEORY' in my posts is easy to omit, but really - I wrote the word 'THEORY' in for a reason.

and what is all this Freudian "projection" crap?

Let's see - read the following quote below.

or tryin to suggest anything other than that by virtue of your posts you seem to be a very combative person verbally, and that the expression of your energy would be better put to use in the gym and not on forums.

You view a counter to your opinion or the link to your post as somehow COMBATIVE... there's nothing COMBATIVE about replying to your posts.
That's a projection. What I did was cite several examples of theories that counter the link. That's all.

I don't confuse COMBAT with replying to a link in like manner that it was written. Do You?

I never said anything about "training time" that would be you "Projecting" something into my post that I never said nor implied.

You have an idea that just because someone is posting here that they SHOULD BE training instead. YOU are posting here... are YOU training? If so, then why the double standard? Is it a way to try to pressure others NOT to counter your link or your opinions? If not, then why would you care HOW others trained and the frequency they trained?

where did you get the Idea that I was "logging" peoples gym time?

You use the comment of 'training' to deflect the actual issues raised. Several examples are evident on this thread.

trust me Bro I get plenty of training, cross training and then some.

wow..cool...

Since you bring it up - Where do you train and with whom? How long have you trained? That's awesome.

so tell me Sun, who invented to Bow and Arrow? was it the Chinese the Native Americans? or wait your an FMA guy so I guess it was the Pinoy.

Oh wait... you like to ASK questions that YOU can answer yourself. I suppose pointing that out is considered COMBATIVE in your world, but what you wrote is not.

Here's my real answer - there's AMPLE evidence in art / literature / living practitioners / manuals / museum artifacts etc. that the bow and arrow existed in numerous cultures. Now take your exact same example and apply that to the French balisong. Why is it that a culture like the French who have AMPLE evidence of all the other weapons and arts they know have ONE, obscure catalogue picture /patent of a balisong... and all of a sudden the THOUSANDS of LIVING/Artifact examples of the Filipino balisong is negated? That pointing this SIMPLE fact out to you somehow makes the person responding 'funny', 'too serious' 'combative' or whatever invalidating statement you have come up with so far is rather amusing.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE FRENCH MIGHT NOT HAVE INVENTED A SIMILAR WEAPON. What we are saying is that they are not the culture that made the BALISONG what it is today. THAT IS A FACT.

Simply put... I posted a counter theory that stands up to the very criteria you used with other cultures weapons. One which the very text you linked to does not.

truth is it was a common weapon developed by several cultures at different times. But not the Bali-song it is a sacred object that could have only come from the Philippine Islands, right?

How's that working for you so far? The parts when you PROJECT answers and thoughts into others reply before they do so.
Oh wait... you do not do any 'Freudian projection crap'... never mind.

If your ever down in Texas hit me up and we'll kick a "Sipa" around, no wait scratch that, you'd probably just want to argue about where it came from.

THIS is funny... you did it AGAIN.

Read what Ferdie wrote. Read what others have written. They are honestly giving you a factual account of a practice in history of the omission and erasure of Filipino culture.

I already stated that you should read what Jose Rizal wrote about that very subject... he knew it to be true while it was actually happening.

--Rafael--

[GonzoStyles]

really you ARE quite a funny fellow

PLEASE show me where I said ANYTHING about training time?

I think this is you "projecting" something into my post so please show me where I suggested anything REMOTELY relating to training time and posting on forums

All I did was suggest you use this energy in a more productive form.

I have not questioned you, or who you train with, but you seem to want to discredit me by innuendo that I am somehow unschooled


My desire for Martial knowledge came from growing up riding skateboards before they were "cool" so me and my friends were constantly defending ouselves against Jocks, Rednecks and wanna-be Gangsters in Channelview Texas home of the Cheerleader Murdering Mom!. I have fought against baseballs bats and chains ( I could right a manual on how to use a skateboard as a weapon), fought when outnumbered, and fought men a hell of alot bigger than me. I have a crown on a front tooth, and a few scars from these encounters, but some of my friends were not so fortunate. I watched as life flight took away a bro that was stabbed, I wrote letters to my friend in the pen, who took a mans life with a knife in self defense and was convicted of manslaughter and got 12 years!


there was a time when I and my ego thought I could train myself and fight competitivly without any help, I fought In Texas Amateur Contact Karate bouts the only kickboxing in Texas at the time, I lost once by TKO and once by DQ (headbutts) after holding back his chuckles when he found out I trained myself, a French guy at my second loss told me I needed to train Muay Thai, that Karate based Kick boxing was limited and not effective, he told me about a man from Thailiand, who just started training in Las Vegas, he said this man was one of the best kickboxing coaches in America at the time, his name was Master Toddy. He also gave me a copy of a video with Dutch Muay Thai fighters Rob Kaman and Ramon Dekkers.
after this I attened 2 of Tim Mousels sessions and watched in Awe as Tim and Saul Soliz worked the Thai Pads.

So I worked and saved money to go to Vegas, then I made a phone call and met one of the greatest men I have had the honor of knowing

My Ajarn is Master Toddy, and back in the early 90's I and lived and breathed Muay Thai for months at a time living, training and sparring with his fighters preparing them bouts. if you want specifics I can give them but I dont need to name drop to polish my ego, anyone who knows Muay Thai knows Master Toddy and his reputation for producing American and European fighters of top caliber. . I am confident in my ability to hold my own with anyone who walks around on two feet and bleeds red. My Muay Thai career was cut short by a family member being shot in a home invasion robbery, so I returned home to help out financially.
the rest of my martial schooling comes from training with any student or coach of any style that I can, trying to learn and adapt from them.

So thats where I come from Bro, how about You?

[Sun_Helmet]

really you ARE quite a funny fellow

Thanks. I have lots of material to work with.

PLEASE show me where I said ANYTHING about training time?

So when you suggest to a COMPLETE STRANGER (me) to spend more TIME and ENERGY in TRAINING, (INSTEAD of posting), you're talking about what exactly?

I think this is you "projecting" something into my post so please show me where I suggested anything REMOTELY relating to training time and posting on forums

Unless the definition for "Remotely" suddenly changed, I would disagree with you 'bro'.
Here's another word you might not like, 'mirroring'.
Check your posts... in fact, check the quote following:

All I did was suggest you use this energy in a more productive form.

Like skateboarding?

The guy who wrote that link was NOT training when HE posted his essay... did YOU write him to focus his energy to his training instead?

If not, then why should my post, which is merely a counter point to that very same link, become a concern to you of my 'energy' or how 'productive' I am?

Don't you find that a little 'funny'? Isn't that a fake concern for my behalf? Because really, you don't know who I am, how little effort this is, or how much I have trained today.

And if my post is NOT productive, then why is the link you posted productive?

I have not questioned you, or who you train with, but you seem to want to discredit me by innuendo that I am somehow unschooled

That's a projection. You used the "you seem..." phrase again.
Everyone here can judge for themselves... no one here is trying to discredit YOU... relax bro.

Remember the initial reply was to the link not to YOU.

My desire for Martial knowledge came from....
(snipped)... the rest of my martial schooling comes from training with any student or coach of any style that I can, trying to learn and adapt from them.

Great, thanks for playing. It was an honest inquiry. I just like to know who I am speaking to. Still don't know your name though.

So thats where I come from Bro, how about You?

Similar...
but add a dash more experience in that pig sticking knife stuff, a smidge more on the ring / live experience (some with sticks/ some with live blades - not all sport), a spoonful extra of research in history, etc.

No skateboarding though...

I was training with machetes back when everyone else was skateboarding.

Btw, I don't like to name drop either.

--Rafael--

[GonzoStyles]

like I said i never attempted to discredit any FMA, which I repeated several times, I never questioned who, where, or how long you trained,
you had a tone that I didnt like so thats why this thing took off like it did.
If you are as learned as you seem to be, surely you can find better ways to talk about FMA and its history to some one as ignorant on the subject as myself ( see Ferdies Post). Because when you come off combative you get a combative response. In reality it was just some words on a forum, not some all out attack on the culture that you made it out to be. maybe my initial post wording could have been better, but thats as close as yer gettin to an apology from me.

you knock skating, funny, do you have any clue of what it's about?

I Imagine it takes courage to train with naked Blades or full contact sticks.

Now try rolling 6 inches above the concrete at 30+ mph with no brakes
no pads or helmet.

But skateboarding is just another part of who I am, like Muay Thai.

you wanted to know my name? funny I must have missed yours.

But I understand that you are just defending your art, so I am done with this post.

[Ern-Dog]

"you wanted to know my name? funny I must have missed yours."

Yes you did.

Check out the last line of Sun_Helmet's last post.

[Sun_Helmet]

like I said i never attempted to discredit any FMA, which I repeated several times,

UNLESS you wrote the article, you're projecting again, because I commented at the contents of the LINK you posted... not directly to you.

I never questioned who, where, or how long you trained,

Remember, you originally brought up that you crosstrained, etc. It must've been for a reason. I merely asked for details.

you had a tone that I didnt like so thats why this thing took off like it did.

No one was taking that perceived tone, you made some judgemental remarks about how one should be focusing their energy. That's a form of invalidation.

If you are as learned as you seem to be, surely you can find better ways to talk about FMA and its history to some one as ignorant on the subject as myself ( see Ferdies Post).

It doesn't alter my true manner or intent.
Again, I wasn't really replying to YOU. You posted a LINK.
And I know Ferdie's instructors so I'm sure they would find your comment amusing.

Because when you come off combative you get a combative response. In reality it was just some words on a forum, not some all out attack on the culture that you made it out to be.

I'm glad you finally understood these are just words in a forum. Perhaps, in time you will understand there's a difference between a counter point to being combative.

maybe my initial post wording could have been better, but thats as close as yer gettin to an apology from me.

I never asked for an apology. You're entitled to your opinions, but it doesn't mean someone won't contest them.

you knock skating, funny, do you have any clue of what it's about?

That was done on purpose.
I planted the word, 'mirroring' in an earlier post, and predicted you wouldn't like it.
Now here's why:
Your response is very revealing because you believe skateboarding is 'positive energy' therefore when somewhat invalidates it (even though I have no negative attitude towards it) you do not like it.

So take the feeling you had about my skateboarding comment and apply it to a whole culture that has been historically, strategically and culturally maligned and whose very existence is due to those Filipinos who bled and sacrificed so that their very existence would not be erased.

Look at all the cultures Spain tried to conquer.... how many speak Spanish? That's clear evidence of trying to erase the contributions and identity of another people. For Filipinos to still retain a semblance of their tribal culture and identity tells you that we take it as seriously as others do their passions (skateboarding, MT).

I Imagine it takes courage to train with naked Blades or full contact sticks.
Now try rolling 6 inches above the concrete at 30+ mph with no brakes
no pads or helmet.

See above. I was spray painting bowls at parks during the late seventies and eighties in Florida... so I am very aware of the subculture. Some my best ass kicking was done on skateboarders (I kid... I kid) I posted what I did to make a point.

But skateboarding is just another part of who I am, like Muay Thai.

I hope no catalogue in France pops up showing someone patented a Krabi and now claims it originated from France.

you wanted to know my name? funny I must have missed yours.

Unless 'funny' means I sign every post.

--Rafael--