2 Panantukan Questions

[RapidAssault16]

I'm really trying to research the Filipino Boxing art of Panantukan. I have some training the art, but not much. Panantukan was supplementary to what I was being taught in a JKD school, but it wasn't much at all...just some jab/parry/jab/parry drill we did over and over to work out distance and movement.

Here are my questions:

1) Since Panantukan is derived from Filipino blade work, I'm assuming that the Panantukan fighter is placed in a right-hand lead (Southpaw stance) as opposed to a left-hand lead (orthodox stance). Am I correct in this assumption? If so, then is the lead hand used 90 percent of the time, as it is in knife fighting, with the rear hand (the left hand) being used for checking, parrying, and grabbing?

2) I was wondering what the various hand strikes are in Panantukan. I know that the 4 basic boxing punches (jab, cross, hook, uppercut) are used...but I have also heard that there are other hand techniques that are used as well. My father did Panantukan back in his teens and he used a technique they called the "Bolo Punch", which is basically a large, swinging hammerfist strike targeted toward the temple area. I believe Yaw Yan, another Filipino striking art, uses the Bolo Punch in it's techical repotoire.

Thanks for the help.

[Ern-Dog]

1.) Not always. Guro Inosanto has shown techniques and concepts from the left and right leads. A lot of the time techniques will be done in a "false" lead [Ex. my left foot is forward but my upper body is situated where my right hand is the lead]

2.) Other strikes I've seen:

A. slap (using the palm)
B. backhand slap (wet towel effect)
C. destructions with elbows (also used to for wrenches)
D. gunting using the knuckles
E. regular hammer fists (as well as bolo punches)
F. forearm shots (to manipulate the body for follow up shots, EX. upward forearm shot to lift the head to follow up with cross/body hook/cross)
G. shoulder butts (EX. grabbing opp.'s head and pulling it into should butt)
H. head butts
==========

Hope this helps.

[RapidAssault16]

[QUOTE=Ern-Dog]1.) Not always. Guro Inosanto has shown techniques and concepts from the left and right leads. A lot of the time techniques will be done in a "false" lead [Ex. my left foot is forward but my upper body is situated where my right hand is the lead]

Hey thanks for the help...but I still am confused about question number 1. 98 percent of Kali/Arnis training is done with the right-hand lead. If the Filipino Boxing techniques are derived from right-handed bladed fighting, then how does one switch to a left handed lead? I have tried to do this but it feels quite awkward. My rear hand (the left hand) isn't a powerful as a rear cross as my right hand is.

[Ern-Dog]

The majority of the Panantukan material I've been exposed to changes leads constantly during the technique, unless it's very basic.

Also...any technique I can do off an opponant's jab. I can do off a jab/cross as well. You should be practicing for both scenarios.

My advice to help out your overall game.....put that stick in you left hand every now and then, it helps.

[RapidAssault16]

My advice to help out your overall game.....put that stick in you left hand every now and then, it helps. [/QUOTE]

Yeah I've been doing that a lot with my knife training. However, I find that because I lack the dexterity in my left arm/hand when wielding a stick, it causes a lot of pain on my left arm. I lack the dexterity and stabilization I have with my right hand, and the weight of the stick really kills my bicep and forearm muscles. The pain is excrutiating...maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Right now, I'm just trying to use my left hand as often in everyday situations: opening a door, carrying groceries, brushing my teeth, steering the steering wheel in a car, etc. I think this might develop more basic cooridnation in my hand, and once I get a basic sense of dexterity in my right arm I'll be able to use the stick in my left hand from time to time.

[Ern-Dog]

My left hand work used to be crap.

When I started training FCS Kali, I learned some parallel side drills where the feeder has his stick in their left hand and the receiver has his stick in his right hand. Those helped a lot.

Also....in Sayoc Kali the right and left hand templates are not mirror images of each other. Both have specific, separate targets. My precision with my left hand has increased exponentially thanks to learning vital templates.

[danjuandesiga]

Ilocos 'boxing'

A fight is a fight.
WHat makes a fight method more confusing is by attaching a name a label to it.
A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, knees, elbows, pinching & biting etc. all the same. The various regions of the PI consist of several varied dialects and tribal 'lingo'.
The Ilocanos like to call their version of panantukan, "Bansi"
The Ilocano equivalent for dumog is "ginnabbo".

This information I got from my father who also practiced Arnis in his day in Ilocos Sur province.

Chow!
DanJuan

[ryangruhn]

98 percent of Kali/Arnis training is done with the right-hand lead

Where in the world did you get that idea? I have never known any of the FMA's to diliver 98% of the material in right lead/hand. I have always trained it as equal as I can between the left and right as do a lot of us under Inosanto lineage.

Gruhn

[RapidAssault16]

I am aware that the FMAs under the Inosanto lineage do practice from both leads, but the FMAs I have studied perform 90 percent of their training with the dominant hand. I am just speaking from my experience.

I do practice techniques using my left hand, but it is feeling very awkward.

[ryangruhn]

Got Ya!
Thank you for clarifying that. I would like to point out that you might in fact be an isolated case of this situation. While we all have a dominant side I have never once met a FMA practitioner or teacher that only trained on the dominant side (98% of the time). There is also the situation of false lead which brings up some other interesting principles. I know a lot of people that go into Kali after doing boxing favor their left foot forward and right hand back simply because of the Cross and its power. They soon come to realize the range they loose when in false lead and the right foot tends to come out a bit more.

Gruhn

[haumana2000]

right hand only???

A lot of the old manongs, do practice one dominant side of their body. I was taught this way by My uncle Manong Marquina as well. His is not a double stick style though.

I think the training both sides of the body comes more as FMA progresses (or regresses depending on who you ask) into a more "martial art" versus method of combat. Even technique wise I was taught that a technique you did on one side of the body wouldnt exactly be the same one that you would do on the other because what would feel natural on one side wouldnt necessarily be the same on the other. Another camp that echo's this approach would be the De Thouars Kuntao Silat under Bob Orlando. My favorite example is a standard old school shoulder throw do it on the right, then the left, it just feels different, and so under the stress of combat, you want a move that feels a hundred percent natural on that side, rather than one you have practiced fifty/fifty. Right or wrong? who knows, I just teach as I was taught to share with my guys what I learned. My Kaibigan Keno does Dekiti tirsia, and does a tremendous amount of training on his left side though..

I guess it all comes down to preference. Funny though, I have a big distorted muscle on my right shoulder between my tricep and deltoid that I dont on my left.

[ryangruhn]

A lot of the old manongs, do practice one dominant side of their body. I was taught this way by My uncle Manong Marquina as well. His is not a double stick style though.

I think the training both sides of the body comes more as FMA progresses (or regresses depending on who you ask) into a more "martial art" versus method of combat. Even technique wise I was taught that a technique you did on one side of the body wouldnt exactly be the same one that you would do on the other because what would feel natural on one side wouldnt necessarily be the same on the other. Another camp that echo's this approach would be the De Thouars Kuntao Silat under Bob Orlando. My favorite example is a standard old school shoulder throw do it on the right, then the left, it just feels different, and so under the stress of combat, you want a move that feels a hundred percent natural on that side, rather than one you have practiced fifty/fifty. Right or wrong? who knows, I just teach as I was taught to share with my guys what I learned. My Kaibigan Keno does Dekiti tirsia, and does a tremendous amount of training on his left side though..

I guess it all comes down to preference. Funny though, I have a big distorted muscle on my right shoulder between my tricep and deltoid that I dont on my left.

Great Post,
It is interesting how we think of left and right but when one does a siniwali pattern both hands move as one. Try it some time; do a left handed pattern, then a right, then both at the same time. I rarely think about one hand being more dominant than the other in siniwali. I also like how my teachers have explained that it is not the “bad” hand or the “weak” hand, but the “complementary” hand. If you say you left hand is weak enough times I am sure it will be believed yet, if you think of it in a positive fashion the outcome becomes more constructive.

[Airyu]

Hello Guys,

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Gumagalang
Guro Steve L.

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net