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How many of you use sets like this to practice attacks against the 12 angles of attack?
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no comments huh? -
12 steps to better cutting 1...
Dude, I'm still on the dialup connection.... my computer doesn't "do" video clips.
Hi, my name is Ray and I use obsolete technology....
Tantojutsu covers the 12 AOA and then some? It might be old but it's slow... lolComment
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One Mans Opinion...
BoarSpear,
Hello sir, I hope that all is well with you. You would not be one of the guys in the video(s) would you? Just curious...
Now to make a few of observations. Keep in mind that everyone has an opinion and you did ask for mine. I personally feel that this type of training could easily lead one astray, combatively speaking of course. There is just too much compliance adhered to by all parties involved in the video footage that I saw... in my opinion anyway.
We should all be training reality based combatives which will develop us to effectively contain realistic situations and prepare us to deal with the worst side of humanity. A side that is so dark that compromise can not possibly be a part of it and definitely will not be an option when the shit hits your shorts as you are thrust amidst a crisis situation gone awry as the heavy hand of reality comes down hard and fast on your position demanding that your actions (inaction’s) define your immediate existence. A place where you will either be forced to embrace life or you will be forced to embrace death, a place where if mistakes are made a do-over will not be an option.
How we train speaks volumes as to how we will fight. If we train with weakness and compromise both will follow us into combat. To remove the possibility of both weakness and compromise from following us and rearing their ugly heads in combat we need to remove them first and foremost from our training environment. For what we do to be effective the way that we train has to resemble as much as possible the very thing for which we are training. So if combat is the very model for our combative development than our training environment has to adopt and include all essential elements which would be found in a realistic combative environment where there are no rules, with the only acceptable goal being survival at what ever the cost, regardless of obstacles or circumstances faced.
In the video during the demonstration the feeder only delivered one strike and left an extended arm for a lengthy period in complete compliance for the person demonstrating to perform magic by cutting the weapon arm of the attacker 3 times before pressing the attack forward in containing the situation. Completely uncontested by the realities of combat or effected by the full gravity of a chaotic combative situation as it would unfold and develop for real governed only by mayhem, destruction and pure uncertainty. When a man only strikes once, holds a pose and does not continue striking or retaliate with intention regardless of opportunity recognized or made available, than reality at this point sadly has been ripped out of the combative equation.
An angry person intent on killing you would not attack you in this manner, so the opportunities that you have against a respectful compliant training partner would not be the same opportunities as would be available to you against a hot headed maniac who will let nothing short of death itself prevent him from lifting your head in combat. No man will just sit idle and allow another this amount of time to work wonders without retaliating back for real, so why do we grant ourselves this amount of time in full compliance by which to counter uncontested in our training environment? The training would be more to life if the feeder were allowed the opportunity to press on his attack at will as opportunity is revealed thereby forcing the one demonstrating to adapt and adjust to each threat in real time allowing him to restructure his counters on a case by case basis as is dictated by necessity.
The former would be akin to us training our Elite Soldiers to shoot without using real weapons or spending live rounds down range. Instead we choose to train them against Elementary School Children using water pistols and supersoakers. Than we throw them into the harsh realities of combat where death is everywhere, expecting them to step-up and perform well as they are forced to smell the fear of those around them as men are soiling themselves when coming eye to eye with their greatest fears as real bullets start to fly overhead with incoming mortar rounds vectoring in and exploding all around their position, while both friend and foe are dying to the left and the right of them. The supersoakers and Elementary School Children would never prepare them for the harsh realities of what they would actually face and develop for combatively. We would all do well to remember that we are our first and last line of defense when life and limb are called upon and if we can not prevent someone from killing us than no one else will. Therefore we need to train to embrace this reality and our training environment has to adopt and reflect this mentality and probable violence as well.
When Punong Guro Edgar G. Sulite graduated De Campo Uno-Dos-Tres Orehenal from GM Jose D. Caballero in Ozamis City, Philippines he was given some very good advice. GM Caballero told him that in his travels he would encounter Master after Master offering their talents as an Eskrima teacher and that they would try and impress him with their skills in recruiting him to their club. He told Edgar that should one of these men come his way and want to demonstrate their skills, that when he was asked to deliver a strike that he should deliver it with the intention of breaking the Masters head and if the Master could defend and perform what he claimed that he could than Edgar should consider him as a Master worthy of training under. But if he could not than Edgar would just politely show a disinterest in that Master and system and continue on his way. GM Caballero felt that any man could do Magic when a student strikes and leaves his arm extended in full compliance for 30 seconds or longer. He also felt that only a true Master could perform what he claimed against a real attack at full speed and power with counter strikes being expected at any time that opportunity was made available.
It is not what you do when you are prepared for an attack but what you will do when you are not prepared which will decide if you will live or die. So therefore you have to include the unexpected attack and counter retaliation at random into your training environment. Only by allowing yourself to develop perception and reaction skills against an unexpected threat in training will you best prepare yourself to defend against it on the street. Remember that it is not what you expect in combat which will take you out but rather that which you do not expect which will end up spilling your blood.
My advice would be that if you want to continue to train in a compliant manner than slowly incorporate random retaliation at some point into the drill. Do what is expected within the drill but at some point in time break out of the drill retaliating against opportunity revealed with anything not expected in an effort to provoke an earnest response from your training partner and than follow it through to see where the training takes you. Random Counter to counter activity against unexpected attacks is key to honing skill and fully developing combatively. As a beginner maybe compliant training akin to what I viewed in the video can be beneficial in a limited manner, but as a man readies himself to transition from man to warrior compliant training can not be a part of what he does. At some point in time all drills have to be dissolved and you must assimilate the finer points of the technique in combative form and movement.
When I train my advanced students from the vantage point of someone on the outside looking in it appears to be more of a sparring match than a training session, but nothing could be farther from the truth. Let’s say that we are training “Crosada” (Gunting), “Pangilog” (disarms) or “Matuwid na daan” (directa) for example. I will attack and counter attack at random probing for openings, in real time, with intention, trying to stab or cut my student in earnest as is based on available target acquisition. The students assignment will be to preserve life first, take my life second, and thirdly will the student try and recognize where the required technique might be effectively applied, if at all.
Meaning that out of an hour-long session as I am aggressively barreling down on the students position, while I am manufacturing opportunity, and really trying to stab or cut him in real time he has to defend my attempts in earnest and still try and locate an opportunity to try and incorporate the required technique, but only if it fits the criteria of defending an unexpected random attack. In other words it has to fit within the situation and actually have a legitimate reason for the technique to be used. All the while if I see an opportunity to stab or cut him I will take it at anytime as he struggles with the weight of surviving in addition to performing the required task when opportunity reveals itself for him to do so. If he uses the required technique correctly more than a few times within the hour-long session I am happy. Because I know that he placed more relevance on survival and the ability to move and defend the random and unexpected attack than he focussed on the technique which I was requiring to begin with. I might add that when opportunity arises I will stab hard into the chest with a metal knife so in addition to the fury of an aggressive attack on his position he also has to negotiate the pain felt by the tip of my blade when mistakes are made and than he is charged to continue on in an effort to rebalance the situation while establishing damage control.
Guro Dave Gould
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Matador?
Great post Guro.
My name is Raymond Gevas and you sound much like an old friend of mine. Eskrimadors scare me...
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Originally posted by BoarSpear...
So there isnt any sense in going slow for the new guys sake?...
BTW....thanks for all the constructive criticism.... i did ask (twice )
And yeah im the ugly dude showing the technique.
Hey Mr. Spear...
nice to put a face to the guy I been readin' on. Wonder what Brewer looks like...?
Guro Gould reminds me ALOT of my friend "John" (the matador) Cardossa. He was a tad on the brutal side from my perspective...
He scared the crap out of me. He taught me to "hunt" for artists...
Not unlike the methods described by Mr. GouldComment
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BoarSpear,
No worries... As I said it was just my opinion and I was only describing how I train and I hope that is all that you will read into it, no more and no less...
Actually if the truth be told I am not the biggest fan of technique in and of itself. I subscribe to the concept of allowing ones abilities to speak for them as in this language of movement ones abilities will either confirm or deny that which is spoken out of the mouth of man. We are only as effective as we are today and ones abilities are simply what they are, no more or no less.
Don`t get me wrong technique is necessary to a degree, but honestly what good is technique without an effective delivery system? I know numerous people who "know how" to disarm a man of his knife 100 different ways, however very few of those of whom I am speaking "could" actually do it for real against a pissed off piece of shit that cares not if he will live or die, and cares even less for anyone else. Too many people put technique above and beyond ability and eventually this will only taint the good reputation of the Pilipino Warrior Arts Community as a whole.
I feel that obstacles and adversity in training are not only healthy but an absolute must, with everything being trained in real time. Anything worth its metal in combat will have to be developed in a combative environment where compliance is not tolerated. I place more value in the recovery of a single failed technique as a direct result of resistance and non-compliance than I do 100 attempts of any technique performed successfully uncontested.
The most important lesson that a beginner could hope to learn is how to recover from failed attempts on target and mistakes made in combat, as opposed to being led to think that they will not make any mistakes at all and that they will always be successful with everything that they do when they are moving against their opponent.
Assumption in training will lead one astray quicker than any other thing that I can think of. In training when one assumes how something will turn out, or when one assumes how a person will react in the event of getting hit, stabbed or shot, and the assumption of how a person will strike or counter one thing to the next will instill more bad habbits in ones abilities than good. In my life I have been shot, stabbed, and cut more than a few occasions and not once did I react the way that people thought that I should have based on assumption.
We should all train to prepare ourselves for the worse case scenario over the best case scenario. If you train to keep the crazed lunatic who will allow only death itself to prevent him from killing you, than the person who only wants to beat you down and leave you layed out with a black-eye and broken ribs will be a non-issue. In the past among numerous altercations I have had to face a rapist tripping heavily on LSD trying to rape one of my female friends. Regardless of how many times I hit him he would not cease and desist, it only made him more determined and quite honestly pissed him off more than he was to begin with.
As he pushed past me he grabbed and threw my friend to the ground, he then climbed on top of her and was tearing her clothes off. After hitting him to no avail I was forced to escalate the situation. I saw an Iron frying pan on the stove and grabbed it, as soon as he saw what I was going for he turned and started to get up as soon as he did I nailed him square in the head, this Iron frying pan literally broke across the top of his head into two pieces and it layed his scalp wide open and blood was everywhere, but it did not knock him out and he still got up and started to come at me as if he was feeling no effect what so ever from the hit. He picked up a kitchen knife that had been knocked to the floor and lunged across the dining room table after me, I moved and grabbed the closest thing too me which was a pair of scissors and I slammed it through his head the realization of that in combination with the heavy blood loss from the head wound sent him to the ground, but he was still conscious and he soon started going into shock. I got my friend out of the house and went down the street to one of her friends house where we called the police and an ambulance. He lived and felt the pain the next day after they removed the scissors from his head and stitched his scalp back up, but when he needed to feel the pain he did not. He could have killed us both, and the crazy thing is is that I am 6ft. tall and weigh 240lbs and he was about 5ft9in and 175lbs at the most.
So... when I see some of the stuff that some people teach needlessly building false confidense in someone who should not be over-confident in their abilities it worries me. Because if they were to face someone with the mindset of a killer I truly question if they will survive or not if all they are going on is mere technique trained only in a compliant environment against someone who is not trying to really force the issue with them.
I have seen people who were stabbed, cut and shot still continue forward and than I have seen others that collapsed immediately. So to assume anything about how someone will react to anything combative when an adrenal dump, drugs, or alcohol are involved would be not only presumtous but a mistake. This is why I train to continue to move my knife with intention until the entire threat has been dealt with, contained and removed before letting up.
When people get hit they hit back, so this has to be addressed to the fullest in training, and even when you cut some one it does not mean that you will get the effect that you are looking for. Not too mention limiting his ability to further threaten you with retaliation. Remember that even as a man lies dying at your feet he is not dead and until he is you can still join him in death. So you train to do what is absolutely necessary to end the situation without exception and than you get out of the area of operation ASAP!
I train first to develop a strong fundamental foundation of combative movement. Than I train to develop basic attributes; Speed, timing, Power and position. Secondary attributes; Perception and reaction, The ability to adapt and adjust to that which is unexpected, non-cooperation, line of engagement, recovery measures and non-telegraphic striking. Than I start developing the advanced principles of the delivery system. After all of this has been instilled than I start teaching the curriculum with delivery system and combative movement having priority over mere technique. As things progress sparring comes into play, as does multi person training from 2 to 6 persons all striking based on opportunity forcing the person singled out to truly move as if survival is at stake... because it is.
There you have it BoarSpear this in a nut-shell is what I am about. If you want to learn more about what I do you are welcome to visit my website and read a little more on how my group views training on my Forum at:
I would be interested to learn more about how you train with your group if you feel like sharing that information and possibly a little more about your background with us? Go well, and good training to you. Ciao
Guro Dave Gould.Comment
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BoarSpear,
Thanks for the quick response, good on you Bro. I hope that your group proggresses nicely. After reading some of your other posts I have to ask; are you Former Military? "under the fence" or other wise? Just curious...
On the Air Soft Pistols, what kind of an environment do your guys train in; Killhouse? Mock-ups? Do you guys train entry as an assault team charged with clearing and making safe specific areas of responsibility while covering designated sectors of fire? Or is it more of an "O.K. Corral" environment where everyone just kind of goes at each other?
Do you guys ever simulate jams in your training with Air-soft Pistols? Have you guys considered adopting to "Sims" (Simunition) formatted training over Air-soft pistols? Since "Sims" is a live (8mm) soap round all of the effects from a real side-arm are replicated; Recoil, sound and flash, smell of gun powder, the possibility of real jams to clear, reloads, and not to mention the pain of really getting shot at close range because it is a real weapon firing the soap round. The training can get pretty intense, especially working with a team charged with making entry on a house clearing room by room hiding a couple of "unfriendlies" some where in the house; behind planters, doors, under cabinets, closets, under the bed, attic, etc... and all having the capability to fire back also with sims rounds as you make entry on the house and attempt to make each room safe and move on to the next never knowing where someone may pop-up.
It gets even more interesting when you give the "unfriendlies" knives as well as you try and clear each room being forced to deal with the unexpected close range knife attack in addition to expecting small arms fire. The fun really begins as you take the training a step further by coordinating entry with an 8 man team going through the door by two`s placing a live body in the "hot seat" as you are forced to negotiate sector of fire and area of responsibility as the first guys through negotiate heavy to light side of the room on entry taking out all of the unfriendlies in a mele without hitting the poor bastard in the "Hot seat".
Than of course instead of ramming the door with the first few guy`s coming through with a balistic shield you come in through the windows, doors, walls, or ceiling coordinating with a sniper initiated entry, or just ramming the building with a personnel troop carrier of sorts dropping flash bangs everywhere to add to the realism and distraction in the midst of reciprical gun play from all of the "unfriendlies" waiting on the other side.
Out of curiosity do you guys always start from a ready position with either knife or side-arm? Or do you ever start from the pocket (knife) or holster and forced to deploy while everything starts to go to hell right in front of your eyes. Weapon depolyment is far underated, and it seems as if too many neglect it just assuming the the weapon will appear in their hand as if by magic when it is needed. And if you do practice weapon deployment how do you and your group go about it? Both blade and fire-arm?
Guro Dave Gould.Comment
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BoarSpear,
Thanks for the response,
I was at Bragg from 83-86.
NAVY EOD "Bagel Station";
Beirut?
DEVGRU? CAG?
If so we are sure to know some of the same people under various Tier-1 CT Ops. ( JSOC / SOCOM) from that time and place.
Guro Dave Gould.Comment
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