SAYOC KALI where Pekiti Tersia gets it's knife skill

[sikal]

Originally posted by Groin Grab
I just want to say your absolutely right Gymrat if you have time to pull the knife you have time to pull the gun and vice versa.

I don't think this is always the case. I can pull and employ my knife much quicker than nearly anyone can pull and fire a gun. I'm sure there are exceptions (and I've seen at least one) ... but in general this is the case. Of course, it depends on where the gun is kept and where the knife is. Yes, if the knife is in your pocket it's going to be a little slower. I carry my knife clipped on my waistband and can have it out, open, and cutting in less than a second. Very few people can draw and fire a gun (unless it's in a quick-draw holster) in that time.

Of course, this is only applicable if I'm close enough to cut the guy as soon as the knife comes out. If I've got ground to cover, then things even out. Also, as I said, I'm sure there are exceptions ... but if we're talking about the clip-on knives, I think many of them are quicker to ready than a gun ... but that's just my opinion ... take it FWIW.

Regards, Mike

[Chad W. Getz]

>>I carry my knife clipped on my waistband and can have it out, open, and cutting in less than a second.

Sikal, is this an Emerson?

[sikal]

Originally posted by Chad W. Getz
>>I carry my knife clipped on my waistband and can have it out, open, and cutting in less than a second.

Sikal, is this an Emerson?

Nope, but I like Emerson (and Benchmade's production models of Emerson blades).

I have 3 that I carry (I only carry one at a time ... just whichever one I happen to grab on a given day is the one I carry). They are a Spyderco Endura, a Spyderco Gunting, and a Kershaw Ken Onion model (not sure of the specific name). I carry my blade (whichever I happen to be carrying) in an "appendix carry" (i.e.: right hip area on my waistband).

Mike

[Call Me Al]

Gymrat,

Cutting an unarmed attacker may be morally wrong or unfair, but the prosecutor in the case advise the guy in the case we were discussing was within the self-defense exception and was legally in the right in the actions he took in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION. After reviewing the tape at length and observing the actions of both parties it was determined mutual combatants and the "victim" was constantly retreating in a defensive posture until the point he pulled the knife and struck at the person twice. At the point the aggression of the attacker stopped, the defense with the knife stopped and it was not not considered excessive force.

It should be noted the person who was cut was on the defensive for a short period of time until the victim began retreating again and then the attacker chased after the victim out of the view of the camera. The attacker also reported to police he had ingested drugs earlier in the day prior to the altercation.

This does not mean ANYONE CAN STAB CUT OR SLASH AN UNARMED PERSON, but it was found to be legal in this situation. As I said in one of my earlier posts, the best defense is to avoid the fight altogether.

[Groin Grab]

Yea, I was wrong. But at least that supports the theory that you can't put to much trust into your guns. I had my brother time me with his stop watch today as I drew my knife from my waist band and I was under 1.2 seconds every time . Then I raced my brother I drew my knife attached to my waist band under my shirt while he drew the gun same position and I was able to beat him every time. Not only did I get mine out first but I could cut right after I drew the knife. Where as my brother had to at least hold the gun away from his face before he could shoot. I have been keeping a knife in-between my mattress and box spring as well and I started practicing drawing that while I was lying on my bed at first I was really slow but soon I was getting it out a lot faster. I prefer to have a knife near my bed than a gun because if I wake up with some one on top of me I might be able to reach in-between the mattress for the knife and stab the sucker a lot faster and easier than reaching for the gun and shooting. I keep my sticks on the side of my bed wedged in-between my bed mattress and my wall. It might sound like I'm paranoid or something but a few months ago I woke up at three thirty in the morning and there was a guy with a flash light sitting in my window I left it open for the fresh air he was looking around my room when I woke up I grabbed my sticks and yelled HEY! really loud when I did that he flashed his light into my eyes to blind me and took off running he had to go about four feet hope a four foot fence and tear through a hedge and the neighbors lawn to get away and that's what he did with out me being able to see me. I was glad those sticks were there but if he had a gun it could have been different he could have shot me while he blinded me. Luckily I think my jumping up and yelling with sticks startled him and so his reaction and best bet was to get the hell out of there right away.

[Call Me Al]

Knife vs. Gun

It is a range game. With a gun the range for success is better because you can create a larger reaction gap and it can be used at more ranges (depending on the skill of the handler). The knife is a close range weapon and CAN be more effective in that range (Depending on the skill of the handler). Some of the pros a knife has at close range are: you do not have to reload it, it is easily concealable, it can change the angle of attack very quickly making it difficult to defend and all you need is about 1" worth blade to make a huge injury.

Cons to a knife: certain types of clothing can obstruct the flow of the weapon, it can only be used at close range and and it is very "personal" style of weapon where someone has to get close enough to touch someone where as shooting with a gun does not (It has to do with the concepts of studies of interpersonal violence). Both weapons are deadly but some are not able to complete a violent act with a knife because it requires getting close to someone, looking them in the eyes and physically touching them where with a gun you have different options.

[Harley]

projectiles not limited to firearms

hello guys,
i just thought i'd throw something out there, pardon the pun.
knives are not just close range weapons, throwing a blade can be very effective, it may not kill the person like a gun but in the reality, it would be hard for him to gain sight picture and sight alignment while dodgeing several projectiles. then he will be in a close range situation. I'm not saying by any means that firearms are not great or that knives are better, i'm just saying that the sayoc method of closing with several projectiles can make a huge difference in distracting the attacker, and provide you the safety needed to close the gap and gain the advantage. We started using projectiles in sparring and it really makes a big difference when you think you might get him in the face or groin with a trainer! the beginners use focus mitts (less chance of a lawsuit, lol) anyway, my suggestion is that when looking at fighting with blades we tend to be somewhat limited in it's applications and should instead attempt to use the tool in every manner possible to gain the advantage and gain the ultimate prize, getting to go home.
harley

[Harley]

also, let me just add,
throwing the knives are only a distraction if you miss! you are trying to nail him to the wall if possible. Tuhon sayoc hit me right in the femoral artery! while i was moving and i didn't see it coming. the movement was so subtle and smooth by the time i saw the knife it was too late. to practice both targeting and recognizing the throw, we wear motorcycle helments and face off, then we throw chopsticks at each other while trying to bridge the gap. there's alot of good drills to teach and utilize the projectile aspects.
just some thing i thought you guys might be interested in.
harley

[Airyu]

Blade throwing

Hey Harley,
When Tuhon was up here for his first seminar he demonstrated his throwing by having someone stand and try to avoid a pen, or chopstick. Not only was it very difficult but near impossible to avoid multiple projectiles! I've thrown blades, shuriken(various types), tomahawks etc. for close to 18 years, only recently have I added the pen and chopstick for practice. As we already know; you don't have to stick your opponent with the blade, it can slash him as it flies by, hits him with the punyo or flat side of the blade etc. It is mearly a method of entry, not a finishing move. Although it can be, there is a recorded instance of soldier throwing(I believe) around 90 feet to kill a sentry in WW2 or WW1.
All the best
Steve

[Harley]

Hey steve,
you've been throwing for 18 years?! man, how old are you?! LOL JUST KIDDING. wow, 90 feet that's incredible, but ya do what ya gota do.
Yes Tuhon threw chopsticks at a student named Pat. and yes it is impossible to dodge them all. even when it's just one at a time, Tuhon can put some amazing whip behind them. I was amazed at how non-telegraphic he was at it. i have never been a thrower, believeing in the why arm the bad guy story, but now that i've been on both sides of the blade i know that's not really a concern, one he isn't catching the blades, and two, i dare him to try to bend over and pick one up!
I am really enjoying all this stuff. I still do all the arts i teach and am a student of BJJ and continue to grow in those areas but i seem to be making leaps and bounds in this system. Even with just the limited amount of information i have being so far from Tuhon, i make huge leaps every week, and so do my students! in the beginning they couldn't cut me at all in freestyle drills, now they are regularly getting cuts on me. It's great to see everyone making such great strides. I think Tuhon will be pleased when he comes back in Sept.
harley

[Airyu]

OLD!

Hello Harley,
Well I am only 18.....Started throwing my bottle from the crib... Alright, I am 36, and not dead yet! Started throwing seriously around 1982 or so. I bought Mike Echanis's book on knife fighting(Not in print anymore) and it had a section on rock and knife throwing. I also used to throw a small baton(made from an axe handle) very, very accurately. The WW2 story is in Henry McEvoys(?) book on knife and Tomahawk throwing. I'll look it up tonight.
Keep posting, and keep in touch
Steve

[Harley]

Hey Steve,
i just started throwing projectiles during the transition drills and man that's awesome, working drawing the different blades from the rig really makes you understand the different placements of the blades. I have found that if i start with two or more blades in my hand that the reciever is so worried about me throwing that i get the cuts even easier! then if i do throw them they are overwhelmed to the point of mentally locking up. they just freeze like "what now" and you can cut at will. now i am working on entering against the projectile which is just like entering against the whip of course since they are the same thing. anyway, just thought i'd tell you that because i am so excited about the progress my group is making.
harley

[Stickgrappler]

hello,

not sure if anyone knows me or my site. was wondering if anyone who posted on this thread minded me saving it to my site:

http://go.to/stickgrappler

TIA.

hy

p.s. Guro Jeff Chung is in my area. time, work and family doesn't permit it now, but this thread has piqued my interest in Sayoc Kali. when it's time, i will check it out.

[Chad W. Getz]

This post has sparked my interest enough for me to go to the DB training camp, partially that Tuhon Cris Sayoc will be there.

[Harley]

Hello Guys,
Well, i hate to be a positive influence on people, lol. I would love to see this subject on other sites. i will visit your site right after this post.
I would recommend visiting the guys in your area when possible, you won't be disappointed.
If you make the DB camp and see Tuhon Chris tell him harley sent ya. ask him to show you the "Revenge Template"
Harley