SAYOC KALI where Pekiti Tersia gets it's knife skill

[Sun_Helmet]

this guys pretty cool. he is straight up threatening to pull a blade on u guys lol.

Just wondering:
What's your definition of "cool"?
or are you goofing on him?

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

[Airyu]

Hello Pinoy Noy

Yes, Rommel Tortal is his nephew.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve

[roz]

alot of ins and outs here, i am pretty sure harley will answer with his own right mind, at his own time-respected. as for the need of others having to do followups concerning someone else, hmmm. then again, maybe it is needed.
everyone knows and respect Sayoc Org., for the hard work, and many achievements, but it is a shame that in the ma world, someone has to feel, or show, much superior, than others, for promotion. when the true case is that everyone should get along w/smiles, again this text is due to trying to demote those how are very well established, and respected.

may i clarify- what does Sayoc have to offer that is better than Vu? answer: try both and judge for oneself!

speaking of, i have seen Sayoc material, and have played. very nice material.
3 salutes
lrg
PFS

[EmptyneSs]

Just wondering:
What's your definition of "cool"?
or are you goofing on him?

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

i just thought it was funny.

[Pinoy_moy]

Hello Pinoy Noy

Yes, Rommel Tortal is his nephew.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve

Maybe I asked the wrong question. I was just wondering if "contra tirsia" is Rommel Tortal.
If he is, its no wonder he is calling out people. Somebody just called his family inferior. You don't do that, especially between Filipino systems and/or families.

[Sun_Helmet]

Maybe I asked the wrong question.

That's because you didn't get the reaction you were looking for.
So you try again below:

Somebody just called his family inferior. You don't do that, especially between Filipino systems and/or families.

Okay, not so bad for a SECOND post, you managed to be redundant, AND completely invalidate the rest of the thread's content.

awesome.

--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

[Pinoy_moy]

What reaction did you think I was expecting?
All I was aking was if "contra tirsia" was Rommel Tortal.
Airyu was kind enough to answer, but he thought I was asking if Rommel Tortal was Gaje's nephew. So I rephrased my question hoping to get the answer I was looking for.
I just stated that IF it was Gaje's nephew that it was no wonder he sounded offended. How is that redundant?

[Sun_Helmet]

What reaction did you think I was expecting?
All I was aking was if "contra tirsia" was Rommel Tortal.
Airyu was kind enough to answer, but he thought I was asking if Rommel Tortal was Gaje's nephew. So I rephrased my question hoping to get the answer I was looking for.

Yes, so you can be redundant and pile on with this comment:
"You don't do that, especially between Filipino systems and/or families."
Last I checked you are not the spokesman for all FMA systems and/or families. Everyone has different attitudes and perceptions of what it is to be "Filipino".

You could have easily asked contra tirsia who he is via PM.
You still do NOT know if it is him just because Steve answered you.

I just stated that IF it was Gaje's nephew that it was no wonder he sounded offended. How is that redundant?

1. There's several pages that already addressed this.
2. The post in question is over THREE years old.
3. Harley has his own forum now.

It's a dead issue.

Btw, who are you?
Or do you want Steve to answer that for you?


--Rafael--
Sayoc Kali

[drpooky]

First of all thanks to all that did this discussion and kept their heads. To those that didn't I decided to post.

To attack someone based on their physique is fair I guess but it shows a very limited view of the world. In your world Stephen Hawking isn't capable of teaching a thing because he isn't buff. Now MA is a bit different than quantum physics but a teacher is still a teacher. Often teachers come in various sizes because we are all individuals. I guess your thinking would be ok if everyone in the world was built like Bruce Lee but since they aren't, you might want to consider that you might fight someone that is in fact a big guy. Size creates advantages and disadvantages that you must learn to navigate.

Secondly, I think the point of this line was to try and point to how Sayoc is different than other forms of Kali. Here everyone seems to want to seperate techniques as if only one system has it. There are probably over 1000 styles of martial arts, do you think there is no crossover? If Sayoc Kali trains a knife all the time then it only makes sense that it will be specialized for that. Do other Kali types have similar techniques, of course they do. Does that mean Sayoc guys just took stick moves and did them with a knife as a selling point...no it doesn't and even if they did, it could have created changes specific to that methodology. Kali normally teaches that a sword is a glorified stick, the attack angles are the same. Doesn't mean that you see no difference between a 31" stick and a 5" blade, just that there are common attack angles with both. If you really doubt Tuhon Chris' skills why not pay for time with him and say it depends on a test. With a mark knife, any attack, if you win 5/10 times then you get a refund. Bet he is more willing to do that than you skeptics are.

Sometimes people look at a system and see one thing and then fly off the handle. This is a sign of immaturity regardless of your age. The mature person actually tests the ideas to try and prove them wrong. Buddha said to question everything, don't trust anything put out by leaders with a title...so your skepticism is fine. Buddha also said that once you test a concept and find it without flaw, to embrace it with all your heart. If you aren't willing to test the concept then all you are really doing is blowing smoke. More specifically you are trying to get some ego boost by saying you can look at a webpage and quickly dismiss it as fluff. You have a full cup and therefore no room to add to it. If there is one constant in life it is change but nobody can teach that to you...it's a concept that you either get or don't.

Also when it comes to the part about carrying 10 knives and the difficulty with that, thats a common problem with all Kali types. Most FMA types believe in carrying multiple blades. As far as legal system I think you have to consider a lot of evil tactics. One you can throw a blade and claim it was theirs (if you killed the guy, easy to place some fingerprints), you can ditch your knives before police arrive so you aren't sitting there with 20, etc etc. This might only work when there aren't a lot of witnesses but when do you think most people are attacked? Most MA believe they would rather face the legal system than die regardless of how it looks. It's really nothing more than survival instinct, if you live to face a jury its a dice roll you won't have if you are dead.

The real problem is that so many buy into the concept that there is some buried secret in martial arts. They see style names and think maybe that one has the secret. Alas, you will never find it...all secrets in this field are illusions. There is a secret, practice. A PT Kali guy can practice more than a Sayoc guy and beat him...and vice versa. You can take a guy untrained and let him fight 200 fights and he will beat most trained people. Talent plays a small part but really talent is pissed away every day. We are all after the same concepts (how to fight) and so training is simply a way to borrow knowledge from people that have navigated the same hurdle. I see a lot of good things being said about Sayoc but not a single bad thing by anyone that has actually trained it.

Keep up the good work guys.
-Don

[salami]

...
they don't defang the snake...

oh really?

[salami]

[Airyu]

Hello Salami,

Great photo's but you are missing the point of the gunting type counter that is commonly known as defanging the snake.

You will note that the movement from the arm destruction to letahl entry is seemless and non stop ...oh wait it is stop action photography!! Many arts practice the defanging the snake motion, not many continue to follow up to engage the attacker after the motion. That is the point that was being brought up way.....way ....back when this thread was started. It just won't die!!!

Train Hard it is the Way!

Gumagalang
Guro Steve Lefebvre

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[salami]

Many arts practice the defanging the snake motion, not many continue to follow up to engage the attacker after the motion.

which arts are you talking about, i have trained in lacoste, lameco, ikaef and modern arnis and have never seen such a thing

[RenegadeMonk]

I have trained in numerous FMA systems. I have trained extensively in the Inosanto-Lacoste Kali system for years. One thing I noticed is that during knife sparring, the aim of the drill is to hit the hand of your opponent. Many times, most practitioners (usually beginners), after they hit the hand, they do not follow up to other parts of the body. In other words, many times it's merely a game of tag. When training in Inosanto-Lacoste, as well as other FMA systems, very rarely have I seen people attack the incoming limb and follow up to vital areas. This is not to say that all practioners of Inosanto-Lacoste Kali, as well as other FMAs who practice defanging the snake, do not follow up. I am only speaking from what I've seen (I'm certified in the Inosanto Kali system under Guro John Ferguson of Progressive Fighting Systems).

Sayoc Kali, from what I've seen and understand, is not primarily focused on attacking the incoming limbs. However, from the photos shown here, it's made clear that attacking the incoming limb is not totally ignored. If the opportunity presents itself, the Sayoc practitioner will attack the limb...but he or she will not stop there. The primary goal of the Sayoc practitoner is to attack those vital areas (heart, major arteries, etc.) which have the ability to drop their opponent...not to attack incoming arteries. As a student of Atienza Kali (Sayoc's sister style), I notice that the Atienza Guros follow a similar method. In AK, the knife work is centered on attacking vital areas as opposed to striking the tendons of the hand. This is not to say that attacking the limbs and tendons are completely forsaken, though.

Most people who have thoroughly studied the use of the blade to save their lives learn to attack whenever they can and anything they can. However, some targets on the body are more efficient to strike than others. I'm not talking "Death-Touch-Dim-Mak" stuff here. I'm referring to the effects of the blade on the human body. Sayoc Kali is very knowledgeable about these targets...hence their many, many Vital Templates of the human body.

[salami]

if the point of the drill is to teach guntings, than yes, follow ups are often neglected, but to say lacoste etc don't see guntings as "freebies" (like someone mentioned it is to the sayocs) is false, there are always follow ups