stick styles

[treelizard]

Is there anyone on here who's trained in multiple stick styles including both Filipino and Japanese? I was recently shown some taijutsu bo techniques and was interested in discussing the similarities and differences.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

treelizard brings up an interesting question. just one element is not clear. did you mean similarities between the short stick methods or the long stick methods. jo (short) bo (long)...

at any rate, addressing both aspects... mechanically, they could be said to be quite similar, though generally speaking, they are drilled very differently. filipino systems usually don't emphasis staff type weapons (or at least not to a significant extent. those that do are often taught by those who crosstrained in japanese systems.

as far as drills, the japanese systems tend to drill things either as kata (without partner or resistance) or in isolation (very limited sequence, then reset).

this is not to say they are inferior, just handled differently. both nations include striking sequences, armed vs. unarmed and even stickgrappling.

remember, these systems had different purposes when they were designed.

hope this helps to get the ball rolling.

thanks.

[treelizard]

I haven't done jo yet, only bo and it seemed like all the basics were exactly the same. Drilling on the asterisk was the exact same angles (not that I expected anyone to come up with new angles), the main point was to step offline (duh), use the length of the stick to avoid getting hit (duh), use your entire body, but I noticed with the Japanese systems there was more emphasis on staying aligned, keeping your stick next to your hip, and actually using your hips and entire body for the movements. This isn't to say that FMA doesn't have people use their entire bodies for stick drills, just that I haven't noticed an emphasis on it.

We definitely drilled with partners and varying levels of resistance.

I didn't notice a huge emphasis on footwork in the Japanese... but again, I'm guessing...

I'm also assuming that the length of the stick won't change the techniques too too incredibly much just like knife can transfer to stick with just a few changes and vice versa.

[Blue Wave Gym]

I don't know

I've done bo and jo in korean ma and do kali at home I think there are diferences and using a jo or bo is not like using a fma stick, a hanbo from japanese ma or a similar length stick in some styles of korean ma would be more similar. A bo is a staff, a jo is a short staff that combines the techniques of both the bo and the sword. How is that like fma? Also fma goes right from striking and blocking to disarms where as bo and jo disarms are not taught untill later on it takes awhile to learn the proper grip in bo and jo techniques where as I find the grip on the fma stick to be quite natural. There are few real tma weapons experts outside japan and okinowa and korea anyway and let's not even mention trying to find a school that teaches the sword.

[treelizard]

Oh yeah, that was another big difference. In FMA you hold onto your stick pretty tightly (or at least, that's what I was taught) whereas in some of the Japanese styles you are pretty relaxed with your grip, letting the stick slide through your hands.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

some good points to observe here. the bo is a two handed weapon and this changes things considerably. while several principles certainly apply to both, they are characterized in very different ways.

as far as the grips on the bo, the trick is to transfer your grip from hand to hand (to facilitate changing range, thrusting, etc). one hand should have a firm grip (for control) while your other might need to suddenly change location on the weapon, or allow the weapon to slide through. of course, for maximum power during strikes, you want a good tight grip. after all, you wouldn't want anyone to survive, neh? hahahaha!!

as far as short stick work, both have similar techniques, though they are taught at different stages in the game. that is, technique xyz might be learned in the first weeks or months in the filipines, but might not be learned until the third or fourth year in japan.

if you have the chance to study both, do so. you might find it really interesting.

thanks.

[DickHardman]

you hold onto your stick pretty tightly

yeah thats always a good idea. i always hold on to my stick tightly as well. dont want anything to happen to it.

[Hardball]

I don't spend a lot of time on Japanese stick. My instructor includes it twice a month in our cirriculum. The techniques are too antiquated for me. Some of that crap they teach in Japanese stick is so outdated that I wouldn't waste my time on it. I prefer basic contemporary stick moves.


Phiillipino stick moves are just the opposite especially the double stick. It is too complicated to use the double sticks the way they teach it.

I prefer old fashioned basic stick moves or a more contemporary weapon.

[treelizard]

I just figure there's only so many ways a stick can move, no matter what art or combination of arts you practice.

Double stick teaches timing and a lot of other things... a lot of the drills are just drills.

[lorenzodamarith]

hello,

that is essentially it. only so many ways.

thanks.

[MasterKaliSilat]

I have studied several styles or systems as I like to refer them in the Filipino Arts because the systems relate to empty hands as well as other weapons. What I've discoverd is that you learn pretty much how to stop your opponent, rather then fight with an opponent, meaning you are now in finishing school in study of these Filipino Art & Sciences, rather then learning to just follow the teacher. If they share you get it, if not, you'll never get it. I've found people often with two or three years still searching for the REAL Kali Silat, and I've found people with as many as 8 years in training, and training hard, but not really experiencing the true Filipino Art. Your teacher shares you get it, if your teacher doesn't share, you'll never know what you're missing. See more for yourself at our website, http://KaliSilat.com of seminar in Germany

[treelizard]

I'm not entirely convinced that stick translates to empty hand in every style. When I was training FMA actually when I started asking for emptyhand my coach would show me Silat...

In taijutsu as I understand it the point is to use your entire body in each move, so using sticks and other implements would translate to empty hand with some modifications.

[lorenzodamarith]

I have studied several styles or systems as I like to refer them in the Filipino Arts because the systems relate to empty hands as well as other weapons. What I've discoverd is that you learn pretty much how to stop your opponent, rather then fight with an opponent, meaning you are now in finishing school in study of these Filipino Art & Sciences, rather then learning to just follow the teacher. If they share you get it, if not, you'll never get it. I've found people often with two or three years still searching for the REAL Kali Silat, and I've found people with as many as 8 years in training, and training hard, but not really experiencing the true Filipino Art. Your teacher shares you get it, if your teacher doesn't share, you'll never know what you're missing. See more for yourself at our website, http://KaliSilat.com of seminar in Germany

hello,

agreed. it is unfortunate, but many never "get it". of course, just as everyone has thier own reason for getting into the systems, each instructor has thier own reason for teaching.

have always thought "you get what you give" with the systems. if you give your heart and soul... and phenomenal effort, you will recieve it in kind from your instructor. the systems are very personal to most instructors, especially the tuhons and grandtuhons. the systems are like thier offspring and they want to know it is in good hands. some might refer to this concept as "worthiness".

have also found that nearly every worthwhile instructor has something to offer and that astute students will accept what is offered and make it thier own.

thanks.

[lorenzodamarith]

I'm not entirely convinced that stick translates to empty hand in every style. When I was training FMA actually when I started asking for emptyhand my coach would show me Silat...

In taijutsu as I understand it the point is to use your entire body in each move, so using sticks and other implements would translate to empty hand with some modifications.

hello,

this might simply be a matter of nomenclature. kali is similar to kalis (verb: to scrape) lending itself to bladework. silat (noun: fighting skill) SOUNDS more like unarmed methods.

it it POSSIBLE that the instructor in question is not high level in either system. filipinos start you out armed and move to unarmed emphasis at high levels. indonese/malays start you out unarmed and at high levels emphasis weapons. for this reason the instructor may be relying on the names as they have been presented. no matter. even if not a tuhon, it is possible to understand the relationships between the systems and pass along this understanding.

thanks.

[treelizard]

it it POSSIBLE that the instructor in question is not high level in either system. thanks.

Hahahaha!!! I just spit out my coffee. Thanks for the laugh, though!! I needed that!!!!