Secretive Styles

[Darrin Cook]

Secrecy and Dying Arts

My instructor GM Estalilla met an eskrimador who taught his system to no one, and it died with him.

In the Philippines, I think the challenge match was a key element behind secrecy. As Guro Crafty talked about using his techniques in sparring matches, imagine a barrio (neighborhood or town) fiesta in the Philippines. People are drinking like crazy and itching for entertainment.

You are asked to "demonstrate." There is another teacher there, and it is suggested that the two of you have a "friendly exchange." Maybe it starts out friendly, but when one guy starts losing, and/or the booze kicks in, or he secretly wants to take you down to boost his standing as a master, or he has no control and you get stung --all of a sudden all hell breaks loose.

Although a lot is made of "death matches" I think the real combat was in the barrio fiesta challenge, and the real danger was a loss of face and being discredited as a teacher.

With so much on the line, teachers knew anyone they taught could be challenging them at the next fiesta, and kept the best techniques to themselves.

[Mananandata]

Its not easy to keep secrets.. its an art in itself. Harder than keeping secrets is not telling others that you have some.

[Crafty Dog]

HA!

Ain't that the truth!

Here's a fun one:

Person One: Can you keep a secret?

Person Two: Yes!!!

Person One: Well, so can I.

[Catman]

Hi guys,

Very interesting topic..

Couple of years back I was very interested in De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal(still am) and was looking for people who can teach the art openly..So I managed to find Guro Jun Pueblos one of the highest ranks in Lameco Eskrima(he is based in Glasgow) and did some private training with him..He explained me that one of the arts Punong Guro Sulite trained in was De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal taught to him by Grandmaster Jose Diaz Caballero.Jun Pueblos himself trained with GM Caballero but when I asked him to teach me the art he said he cannot do that as that what he promised to his teacher..I was very surprised but obviously once I start digging more into it I've found out that this was one of the main request GM Caballero was asking his students,not to teach others..
So anyway..after couple of years of searching I have managed to find the only person certified under GM Manuel Lebumfacil Caballero,the son of the GM Jose Caballero,in De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal and learnt the art from him..I can say that I was very fortunate considering that Guro Tony Yarwood is based in London(where I am from).Guro Tony Yarwood travels regularly to Philippines to train with GM Caballero for couple of months a year(he is there now).When Guro Yarwood found GM Caballero in Toldeo City,he was only teaching couple of locals..so again a very limited number of people..
I am saying this as De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal has influenced a major style like Lameco and as a former Dog Brothers member and GL when I was training combining stick and footwork I could see some of the techniques from De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal..
So at last an Art which has been kept pretty low profile now it is open to the public with the blessing of GM Manuel Caballero and taught openly in UK.

Bets wishes,

Cat
London Arnis Group

[Crafty Dog]

Woof All:


"I am saying this as De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal has influenced a major style like Lameco and as a former Dog Brothers member and GL when I was training combining stick and footwork I could see some of the techniques from De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal."

As written here someone might inadvertently get the impression that Cat was claiming being a member of the DB tribe. To prevent any misunderstanding, to be precise Cat trained in DBMA and was a Group Leader for a time. He was not a member of the DB Tribe.

He is correct about the presence and lineage of some combinations for De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal. Lameco (I was a private student of PG Edgar Sulite from his arrival in the US until the time of his death) is a core Filipino system for DBMA and it was via PG Edgar that I learned the De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal. The stick pattern of what we call "Variation 5" comes from this lineage.

[Catman]

"As written here someone might inadvertently get the impression that Cat was claiming being a member of the DB tribe. To prevent any misunderstanding, to be precise Cat trained in DBMA and was a Group Leader for a time. He was not a member of the DB Tribe."

Absolutely true Guro Crafty..I should have mentioned that I trained in DBMA and I was indeed for a period of time a Group Leader in London and not a member of the Tribe..The only reason I had to stop training in DBMA was my injuries(half torn MCL which cannot be operated) and a shoulder injury which I am booked for surgery in January.
Also I want to mention that training in DBMA was one of the best experiences I have ever had..Hopefully once I am fully recovered from my injuries I will be able to resume my training in DBMA along with the De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal.

Regards,

Cat

[Crafty Dog]

Just want to make it clear that I am sure that Cat's expression was completely innocent. It is quite natural to drop the words "Martial Arts" off of "Dog Brothers Martial Arts" and simply say "Dog Brothers".

The problem then arises though that some people will confuse the intended meaning between "THE Dog Brothers- that band of sweaty, smelly, psychopaths with sticks" and DBMA "the system of many styles with the mission statement of "Walk as a Warrior for all your days." Given that I am both the Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers AND the Founder/Head Instructor of DBMA if I were not careful if would be very easy for people to confuse/blend the two.

THERE IS NO MONEY IN "THE DOG BROTHERS". You do not have to train with me or in DBMA to become a Dog Brother-- (though I do admit to thinking the DBMA training is a really good way to help develop yourself in that regard!)

I simply posted to keep this distinction clear.

As for the injury Cat, I wish you all the best and look forward to your return. I am surprised to hear that the UK is unable to operate on a half torn MCL.

I had my ACL, PCL, and Lateral Collateral Ligaments all snapped in half in a freak BJJ accident way back in 1992 and my insurance covered 80% of the cost of three surgeries replacing these three ligaments with tendons from cadavers. The total cost of the surgeries was about $50,000 (remember, 1992 dollars) and so I was out of pocket for $8,000. In that I would have been a cripple for life without this medical technology, I regard all this as an outstanding result! Count me as strongly against what our economically illiterate President is trying to do to our health care system right now , , , but I digress , , , as I so often do :-)

[Crafty Dog]

PS: If you go to the promo clip for "The Snaggletooth Variations" at
Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts
there is a snippet of PG Edgar showing a variation to Salty Dog in my backyard.

[Catman]

Dear Guro Crafty,

Thank you for your wishes..unfortunately with my MCL Injury after I had the MRI done the doctor said that is no point in operating as I should be ok if I keep strenghtening my quads which I have been doing for a while now..so anyway..I can live with the knee injury now as it is not painful anymore but for a year and a half I was in REAL pain..Now the main problem is the shoulder which I am hoping to be ok after the surgery and rehab for 6 months..

I saw the clip with PG Sulite and indeed that is "group 6" in De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal..Actually that combo is the signature combo for the De Campo system..

I am actually looking forward to coming back into training DBMA and perhaps one day to take part in the Gathering.

Regards,

Cat

[shuyun]

Not to speak ill of the dead Catman, but do you think GM Caballero's (cavalier..hmmmm) wish to keep the style a secret was good for the art and/or FMA in general?

[Catman]

Hi Shuyun,

Obviously keeping an art secret it wont do us any favours but at the time I am assuming there were "good" reasons why certain Master didnt want to open to the general public..
Now,Manuel Caballero(the son of GM Jose Caballero) realized the art will die out eventually and he decided to teach it to those interested..As far as De Campo 1-2-3 Orehenal is concerned,people like PG Sulite made the art quite known throught the techniques and concepts he used in Lameco..It's just that the De Campo has never been taught openly as a system until now..

Regards,

Cat

[shuyun]

Thanks for the reply.

Is FMA big in the UK? Is it much different from the English single stick?

[Catman]

Hi Shuyun,

No worries mate..well I cant say it's big but there are various clubs training in FMA throughout UK..and to be honest I dont really know the differences between the 2 arts as I haven't trained in english stick fighting..maybe somebody else could help..

Regards,

Cat

[Darrin Cook]

Jose Caballero and Secrecy

Catman,

Jose Caballero was one I had in mind when talking of secrecy, particularly in light of the matches he found himself in at various fiestas.

GM Estalilla's father got prodded into a "friendly exchange" at a fiesta. He used a secret technique that was his ace in the hole. Tragically, he unintentionally blinded his opponent in one eye.

The two men became friends, and Ramiro Estalilla remembers going with his father to visit the man he had accidentally blinded. You can imagine how hollow his "victory" must have felt.

Hopefully this helps illuminate the high stakes and the mindset in which any technique could be the edge that prevents you from humiliation or from more serious injury.

[Crafty Dog]

GM Estalilla is a very fine man with whom I have had to pleasure to train a few times (a snippet of one of the trainings appears in one of our DVDs) and Pappy Dog produced a very nice DVD of GM Ramiro sharing some of his distinctive "Kabaroan" DVD-- which we are proud to carry on our website BTW. If you see him before I do next, please give him my warm greetings and respects.