I'll post this thread on the MMA/BJJ and JKD lists as well. So how do you train closing the gap(transitional range) when fighting empty hands.
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Closing The Gap (Empty Hand)
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
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Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
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By far the biggest obstacle I stumbled onto in my MA training is closing the distance.
That's because I have FEAR to get hit.
You can search high and low and drill until the cows gets home, but when you'll face a real sparring session or worse, a real fight, the fear will resurface. Sure as hell.
So basically you have only one option: accept the price to get proficient in closing the distance, and that's PAIN. Lots of pain.
I fear what i don't know, and tend to exxaggerate my fears, so I feared my opponent's blow thinking they would hurt me in a disproportionate way.
When I first trained in Ruas vale tudo one of the first question I put to my instructor was "How you can get the clinch bypassing your opponent's hands? How Marco teached you?" he replied "I trained with Marco in LA and Brazil, and EVERYTIME he beated the crap outta me" so he did exactly the same to me.
Once explained how to clinch you must deflect the incoming blows against a partner THAT IS TRYING TO CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
Really; that's no other way.
There are endless techniques to get the clinch, but the real secret is become confident in the fact that even if you catch an incoming blow it must be a very powerful and precise one to slow you down for the count; if you have experience in dealing with the sensation of get hit you will not have fear, and you'll enter INSIDE your opponent blows. I was stunned when I saw my instructor getting the head over chest clinch with experienced boxers; his timing was so precise, finding a little hole between the guys arms and then stepping inside. I think this is the single most important ability for a fighter: to enter inside close range at will. If you watch Ruas fights you'll see that he clinch getting behind the opponent front shoulder; with the head pressing it. From this position you are fairly safe: and a moment away from a takedown.
I would expand on this but now I must go to work!
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
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Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
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Thanks, Chad; now let's tech:
We train in three types of closing the distance:
1. getting the "high clinch", i.e. the muai Thay, boxing, or greco roman clinch. You wrap your arm around your opp. neck, and work from there.
2. the "medium clinch"; i.e. your arm are wrapped around your opp. chest: you may have a frontal clinch, where your head is buried in opponent's sternum; a lateral one, and your head is behind your opp. front shoulder, or a back one, where your head is pressed against you opp. high spine.
We from RVT think that the medium clinch is the safest of the three, but that's reflect the fact that the style is a byproduct of Ruas, a Tall guy like mine. If I shoot for a low takedow, I must lower myself alot, telegraphing the move.
3. the "low clinch"; when your head is pressing against the opp. rear hipbone. Is the classical wrestling/BJJ takedown attempt.
To train you must progress in sparring, and chose if you get the clinch defensively or offensively: in the former case you have an opponent chasing you with wathever weapon you decide (only punches, kickboxing, elbows etc.) and you have wathever padding gear you decide: then it's WAR, if your partner nail you, the gym laugh hard, if not, they laugh hard alsoewher...
To get the clinch offensively your partner held focus mitts or thai pads, and you throw combinations and then enter. Simple. If you did something wrong he hit you wit the mitts. hard. very hard.
Then you do conditioned sparring: when one get the clinch score a point; the one who reach a certain number of point laugh hard when the other did 100 push ups...
Ciao!
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if you have a guy in front of you who is not a grappler, or he is not trying to clinch with you, a good way to go in is to decide how close you want to get in first. like are you going close enough to jab only (stick and move), close enough to power punch, close enough to kick with the shin, close enough to kick with the foot, or close enough to clinch, or clinch and strike. there is a distance you need for one of those.
the first thing is to practice and decide which footwork you will use, a slide or a step. the best way when you use one of those is to step or slide in BEHIND you opponent foot. and while you moved in or a half second before you moved in you should throw a hand technique or foot technique to get you opponent reaction. this way when you see his reaction, you will know what you will do second, because that determines what will you do third, which is the beginning of what you really plan to do in the first place.
my favorite entering technique is to very bravely slam my round kick to my opponent about every five seconds to make sure it hurts. then i set up a good angle and distance to my opponent, then i initiate a fake round kick (my leg only comes up about one or two feet) then i put it down while i slide in, take my opponent front hand and follow it up with hands. i use it whenever i need to let him know who is boss, because it works for me almost every time. it use it in full contact matches and point fighting and continuous point. sometimes i skip the trap and go right to punching if my opponent is real slow.
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
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St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training
www.stlouistrainingcircle.com

Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
-
Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
So U.D., how do you feel about the overhook vs the underhook? Are they both midline, or is the overhook a mid line and the underhook between mid and high or just high? I've noticed alot of grapplers will feel the underhook, while my stickclinching reflexes puts me right into the overhook-control the arm-type of clinch.
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
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Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
Fine with me, I only used the terms, cuz I thought you knew it. Only learned the "words" a month or two ago. The "ovehook" is when you trap your opponents arm under yours. Being that your arm is hooking "over" his, I suppose. The underhook would be where you are kind of hooking from inside going under and bringing it up from the outside towards his face area. Logically speaking of course. From clinching with the weapons, theres no way a proficient stickfighter would let you get away with that "underhook"-hooking your arm under-if he had a stick in his hand. So because of my training and fighting, when we go empty hand, I tend to want to clinch more-no, make that I end up clinching-because of habit or body mechanics or whatever but it's natural for me-I end up clinching and trying to tie up his right arm with my right arm and...well it gets a little complicated...so in trying to not sound like a technique junkie, I've got a few thngs that I can work from there. But it's only because of my sticktraining that I wind up clinching and fighting for this position. Just throwing it at you. I like it, not planning to change it much, just work more at it and probably some of the other clinches as well. Interested in Greco clinghing, but don't want my ears busted up.
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Most of the time I overhook; that's because I'm taller than the majority of my partners, so they shoot low.
Also, underhooking standing up leave yourself very open to headbutts...
I underhook when I'm trying to bypass my opponent's arms and going behind his shoulder.
However, I haven't a specific response: in sparring most of the time it's caos and improvisation...
Also, underhooking standing up leave yourself very open to headbutts...
I underhook when I'm trying to bypass my opponent's arms and going behind his shoulder.
However, I haven't a specific response: in sparring most of the time it's caos and improvisation...
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
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Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
Ok...makes sense...
>>>I haven't a specific response: in sparring most of the time it's caos and improvisation...
Yea, but with the way i train the stick clinching crazy its natural reaction to clinch that way, I didn't know any other way.
>>>I haven't a specific response: in sparring most of the time it's caos and improvisation...
Yea, but with the way i train the stick clinching crazy its natural reaction to clinch that way, I didn't know any other way.
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Little hint directly from Marco Ruas's seminar:
When you step for the clinch, try not to clinch holding the neck; as in Thaiboxing, instead try to grab the arms, overhooking them, if your opponent is a grappler he'll try the underhook, attempting maybe a throw (suplesse or salto).
The moment you have your arms wrapped around their, do a laterale headbutt, aimed to his eye.
Try it, for me it has worked on the streets and in sparring: if you are fluid and non telegraphic is a totally unexpected move.
Also, fake a low shoot, lowering your level maybe 8 inches; and when your opp. will try the overhook sprawling, rise powerfully with the back of the head, if you did well you'll headbutt the guy straight in the face; if he evade the headbutt slipping it, he set himself up for a lateral headbutt.
P.S. the lateral headbutt is actually a diagonal one, aimed downward; if you are facing an opp. with a right stance, your head will travel downward 45° to the left.
Hope I've explained it well.
When you step for the clinch, try not to clinch holding the neck; as in Thaiboxing, instead try to grab the arms, overhooking them, if your opponent is a grappler he'll try the underhook, attempting maybe a throw (suplesse or salto).
The moment you have your arms wrapped around their, do a laterale headbutt, aimed to his eye.
Try it, for me it has worked on the streets and in sparring: if you are fluid and non telegraphic is a totally unexpected move.
Also, fake a low shoot, lowering your level maybe 8 inches; and when your opp. will try the overhook sprawling, rise powerfully with the back of the head, if you did well you'll headbutt the guy straight in the face; if he evade the headbutt slipping it, he set himself up for a lateral headbutt.
P.S. the lateral headbutt is actually a diagonal one, aimed downward; if you are facing an opp. with a right stance, your head will travel downward 45° to the left.
Hope I've explained it well.
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 377
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St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training
www.stlouistrainingcircle.com
so...
is the classic judo grip considered a clinch? or do you have to be closer, with an arm (not a hand) around the neck for it to be a clinch..
i was thinking the classic judo hold would be more of a medium clinch (going on ud's terminology) but then began to wonder if it's a clinch at all, since you are grabbing one lapel and one sleeve.. or one sleeve and the collar behind the neck..
?
I really haven't worked this throwing position much with striking included, but it seems like a somewhat safe place to start a throw (maybe i'm showing my ignorance) being that your hands are in a good place to stop punches short..
is the classic judo grip considered a clinch? or do you have to be closer, with an arm (not a hand) around the neck for it to be a clinch..
i was thinking the classic judo hold would be more of a medium clinch (going on ud's terminology) but then began to wonder if it's a clinch at all, since you are grabbing one lapel and one sleeve.. or one sleeve and the collar behind the neck..
?
I really haven't worked this throwing position much with striking included, but it seems like a somewhat safe place to start a throw (maybe i'm showing my ignorance) being that your hands are in a good place to stop punches short..
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 508
-
Chad W. Getz
Full Contact Hawaii - http://www.fullcontacthi.com
Stickfighting Digest - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stickfighting
The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up. The clinching arts imply the clinch can stop the striker from striking, and the grappler from taking it to the ground. The weapon arts imply the they can stop the unarmed man. A complete martial art implies any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere.
I think the judo clinch is a good start. I also think that the less rules and more weapons are added, the closer and tighter the clinch becomes.
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Registered User
- Sep 2000
- 377
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St Louis MMA Club for Boxing / Clinch / Grappling Training
www.stlouistrainingcircle.com
i did
high school wrestling.. and learned to clinch there somewhat.. nowhere as good as greco training.. but still a good idea.. i think the judo clinch might be better if a guy is nailing you with heavy uppercuts/hooks.. cause you keep him at straight punch range, and the punches are easy to stop..
i also find the judo grip gives you some wicked leverage for throws.. makes you a catapult-of-humans..
but i'm still looking to learn the greco style clinch, with street applications.. i just keep hearing too much about it.. and admittedly, you're right, with weapons you seem to end up in a tighter clinch..
high school wrestling.. and learned to clinch there somewhat.. nowhere as good as greco training.. but still a good idea.. i think the judo clinch might be better if a guy is nailing you with heavy uppercuts/hooks.. cause you keep him at straight punch range, and the punches are easy to stop..
i also find the judo grip gives you some wicked leverage for throws.. makes you a catapult-of-humans..
but i'm still looking to learn the greco style clinch, with street applications.. i just keep hearing too much about it.. and admittedly, you're right, with weapons you seem to end up in a tighter clinch..
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