Question for the instructors....

[Jason S.]

Greetings All~


I am curious about some of your testing procedures. Now, regardless of whether or not you utilize belts, levels, colored t-shirts, or any other form of rank that differentiates students of different experience, this applies to you.


1.) When you test your student for various levels, is the test purely physical?


2.) Do you question them to test their knowledge on the concepts behind the arts?


3.) What else is included?


4.) How long does an average "test" last?


5.) How do you prepare your students for their upcoming "tests / quizes" ?


6.) If the "test" is for instructor "Black Belt Level" {Sorry to those who shun belts!} do they automatically become an instructor or is there a test that determines whether or not the candidate is able to transfer the information learned to others in an effective, proper, and safe manner?



Now...I'll start this thread going by giving answers that relate to our academy:


1.) Actually we are in the process of moving back to tests that include both technical and conceptual areas. The candidates are asked questions in between rounds of high endurance physical tests. We do this to make sure the student can think rationally under stress and after an "adrenaline dump".


2.) It is vitally important to me as an instructor that my students understand the why & when in addition to the who & how.


3.) At the low to intermediate levels we start to ask questions concerning various muscular systems as well as other body structure questions.


4.) This is one we've struggled with for years. With our most recent reorganization, our goal is for most tests to last an average of 8-12 minutes at the lower end and hopefully less than 1 hour at the higher end.


5.) In the past all tests have been scheduled so the student was unaware that they were testing until they were in the middle of it. We have begun to schedule them regularly so that students can prepare themselves mentally and physically. Usually they will question some of the instructors to make sure that their technique is correct before "showtime".


6.) Actually, we have found that just because someone is technically talented and conceptually aware of the basics of our art, it doesn't necessarily make them a competent instructor. Students who have an interest in teaching actually go through a training course, somewhat like an internship, so that I am sure that they can teach correctly {at least in my opinion!}


***I am very interested to hear how the rest of you do this. Feel free to post it here or e-mail me directly at

Guro_Jason@eemaworld.com .


Respectfully,

Guro Jason M. Silverman

EEMA Fitness & Martial Arts

https://www.eemaworld.com

[SD fma]

Testing

Hello Jason S.

Here is how one humble school tests and promotes....

In the Babao Arnis Academy, Master Babao gives a written test on terminology and history at every level...you must pass with a minimum 80% (pass/fail) to go to the practical application...

Then you are tested on everything you've been taught up to that point...all of the sayaws and sinulogs, techniques and so on...we fight regularly throughout the year, so it is not a question that you can fight or not...

All levels short of testing for Guro last for the class period which is 2 hours...testing for Guro will go longer because of added fighting-single opponents to multiple opponents-who are all Guros or senior students..it gets tiresome...since Master Babao teaches three complete systems, his family Babao Arnis system, Doce Pares Escrima/Eskrido, and Villabrille/Largusa kali, there is a lot to learn...and it generally takes at least 7 or 8 years to be ready...even longer if you are not ready-which happens if you have a family, a career and so on...

We have two shirts-black for students and red for Guro and above...it keeps things simple...most of the senior students are Doce Pares black belts, but not a Guro in the school....training is complete from Master Babao when you are promoted to Guro...then it is up to the new Guro to fill in holes that are realized later....so it is a life long commitment

I hope this helps...

Sd fma

[thekuntawman]

this is my opinion of testing and giving rankings to teach philippine martial arts.

the martial arts is not like a course you can take in school, it is like a skill you learn at a trade school. to be considered an expert, you have to "make" the things your craft makes, for the martial artist that is fight matches, and you have to do many of them over a few years. your title of being the "expert" is not something you get like a high school diplomas, but more like something the people in your community recognize you becuase they have seen your work and they respect what you know and what you can do.

this is the reason i do not like to hear about the title of "master" that is something you test for. it is a title you earn from the community, not a grade or step in a curriculum. mastership takes such a long time, that i cannot see a guy after 20-30 years going back to his teacher if he is still alive, and say to him " i like to test for a master". this kind of rank is politics and business, not somethig the community sees, like when filipinos call an old guy in the community "manong", you know him from around, your dad knew him, now you know him, he saw you all grow up, so when he is old, you look up to him, and you call him "manong/tatang".

for testing, the instructor knows when his people are ready. so there is no need to test him, unless he want to test his heart and courage. there can be testings for this like, 25 men to fight with back to back with 60 seconds rest. that is a test. but to make your student do somethig and you know he can do it, because he did it many times, that does not have a purpose. so if you have a test, make it a true test, something where you dont know the answer to it, like how much courage does he have, how bad does he want the next level, etc.

instructorship in my opinion, has to be "on the job training" out of 10 expert level students, maybe, one teacher out of the group. not everybody is cut off to be a teacher, and he should spent time with the master to see if he has the quality of a teacher. does he really know what is the responsibility of a teacher, and is he mature enough. not just what does he know and can he show it to other people. anybody can do that.

a teacher is someone, who has already had his prime and its almost over. he should be a competitng man, because what can he tell his students from experience, not theory? can he tell you about these different kinds of opponents, or does he come up with these rules from thinking it over? (again theory) can he tell his student what to do when he is about to lost a fight? has he been knocked out? not everybody will agree to me about this, but a teacher must have competition in his past, because he cannot just talk about classroom wars to his boys or use theory to prepare them for a real fight. at least in the competition, he has seen the unexpected, and unknown people and beat them. i am not going to believe some guys "street experience" not even a cop, because the student does not have a gun and back up coming in a streetfight.

young people under age 25 are not qualified to teach martial arts. at 25 he should spent his time going out sparring with people to make his skills better and developing his philosophy of martial arts though experience and not youth. when his days are almost done i guarantee you he will be wiser than a new black belter with only 5 years experience in the ring. let this happen, then after his art changes from experience, what will happend to the students who learned when he was younger? they will have to change styles, and that is not good. a inexprenced man has no business teaching people i dont care who sign the certificate. because its like a 21 year old kid raising children, yes you can do it, but its not a good idea.

[Guro Dave Gould]

Promotion in rank and title...

Jason,

Hello there it has been awhile. I hope that all is well with you there in boston. first off I would like to thank Kuntawman for such a great response. We have alot in common and we think very much alike regarding the rank issue. Thanks for sharing your views on the matter.

Now for my response on the matter. I too rank more in terms of ones abilities more-so than time served or knowledge of technique / curriculum. I feel that rank should be a reflection of ones true combative capabilities and not an automatic reward given freely for mere loyalty or timed served in a system. I don`t give rank tests but rather issue rank according to performance based on many months of silent observation. Once I feel that a student moves in accordance with a certain skill level I will issue the appropriate rank without the student ever knowing that he was being tested. It`s how you move when you don`t think that you are being tested which represents the true capability of a student on a daily basis.

one reason that I was drawn to the Pilipino warrior arts was because of the culture and the way that rank was presented in general. You are only as good as you are today. It doesn`t matter how good you were 10 years ago or how good you will be 10 years from now as you are judged in the now in terms of how effective you are in the present. As I’ve said a thousand times, ones abilities will either confirm or contradict that which is spoken out of the mouth of man. A man can spout lie after lie out of his mouth whereas his abilities are what they are. No more and no less and to that end we are simply effective or we are not. There’s no deception found in ones abilities, as only truth is spoken through this language of movement. Which is why I feel that rank should be measured by ability and performance over sole technical skill or time invested in a system.

In saying this let`s talk about seeking out a good instructor. A great teacher should possess three very important qualities:
1). He should have the ability to impart his knowledge in such a way as to connect with his students in order to give them a clear understanding of what points that he is trying to make with them. A clear understanding of the material to be presented is key to learning well, and a lot of patience on both sides is required here.
2). He should be a great fighter, insignificant to his ability to teach but valid none-the-less. This gives the student first hand information as to what will work realistically in a fight as opposed to what won`t coming from a long lineage of " I know that it will work because my instructor said that it will, because his instructor said that it would, etc.". The fact is that if you haven’t been there first hand you don`t know if something will work or not, you will only be able to speculate at best what may or may not work, experience speaks volumes... An instructor that has been involved in many altercations can give you more insight into what will work for you in combat as well as what will get you killed, moreso than those that don`t. Functional knowledge is more valuable in combat than speculative knowledge.
3). He should possess great technical skill. This person knows his curriculum inside and out. In other words he can involve you in a clear-cut progression with positive direction for growth within the system. And he should be very fluent, yet effective with all aspects of his system. But he has to understand the difference between doing a technique for show and doing one for combat. He should always move with intention meaning that he`s gonna` be able to hit what he`s striking at with positive effect and when he does he will be able to bring it to the ground. He should have a good understanding of his attribute abilities; speed, timing, power, position, non-telegraphic striking, recovery, etc... All of the things that are required of your techniques to be effective in a possible life threatening situation.

As well, his mindset should be realistic in its approach in that the way that he trains his students has to brush up against reality at some point in time, because the way that you train is the way that you will fight. If we train with intent, power and aggression than in like manner shall we respond when confronted with a possible life-threatening situation. In order for what we do to be effective the way that we train has to resemble as close as possible the very thing for which we are training.

There are too many people walking around thinking that they are just short of being invincible because of the way that they perform in the dojo. I blame the instructor for that as this leaves the students feeling quite (over)confident in their abilities, which in itself is`nt a bad thing. Confidence goes a long way but when you start believing "that bullets will bounce off of your chest" a misjustice has been committed. It`s the instructors job not to "coddle" his students but to realistically inform them of the potential dangers which they may encounter and to give them realistic solutions to "problem" solve realistic issues which they may be forced to deal with while fighting for their lives.

A good instructor will be able to point out that there is a huge difference in how your training partner is attacking you, for the sake of the technique, and how a man out of his mind with anger will attack you. your training partner is your friend and will hold back as not to hurt you giving you many opportunities to recover with which you will not have access too on the street fighting for your life against someone intent on violently tearing your head off. There`s a huge difference between the two. There`s no place on the street for an over-inflated ego and false sense of confidence which more than enough instructors are more than willing to impart to you all for the sake of money and a large student base.

Very rare is the instructor whom will possess all of the above mentioned qualities. Some may be great teachers, but their mindset is off and they`re not great fighters or have no technical skill. Or some may be great fighters but their ability to teach you to move the way that they do is weak or non-existent. They can do it themselves but they can`t tell you what they`re doing that makes them so effective. Or some can show you a thousand techniques that may end any situation but they won`t have intention in there techniques, meaning that there is nothing but the technique minus the power, speed, position, timing, etc... which is required for sed techniques to be effective on the street.
Choosing a good instructor is like throwing the dice, but there are plenty out there you just have to educate yourself as what to look for and don`t be afraid of asking questions or checking the background of your potential instructor, if he`s legit and has nothing to hide he won`t mind you looking.

The only question that remains in my mind is what is your potential student base looking for in martial arts? if they`re looking for a functional warrior art designed to put down potentially dangerous situations posthaste with positive effect than they should look for instructors that possess the above stated qualities and not get hung up on the rank issue. If they are looking to get involved only for social reasons or to do nothing but occupy their time once or twice a week than any school or instructor will do and rank will be very significant to them. Realistically ask your self what you believe that your potential student base will want. There`s something out there for everyone, the trick is to match what you want with the person that has the abilities to give it to you.

In essense my take on the rank issue is that you are what people perceive you to be. If people see a Master standing in front of them than you are a master. If they see a beginner , than you are a beginner. Only some one other than yourself can judge your capabilities fairly and unbiased. Rank is what you make of it, it can be your whole world or just a small piece of it... I hope that this answers your question. Take care Jason and continued success with your training and teaching endeavors.

~ Guro Dave Gould.