muslim fighting arts forums

[thekuntawman]

hello
i would like to invite everyone to www.mubai.cc the muslim fighting art form, where people can talk about the fighting arts of muslim countries.

[lionleo]

Just wanna drop my two cents Kuntawman..i guess i would like to politely differ from the term this muslim fighting arts. I come from the Island of Mindanao particularly sarangani province. Our farm is loicated in the middle of a vast muslim domain..and the best fighting arts teachers there are not muslims..again they are not muslims..even if you tell me it's from Indonesia or Sarawak or Malaysia, usng the term muslim fighting arts and the like is politically incorrect. Maybe calling it southeast asian arts would be better and would get that stigma that muslims are the ones propagating it. To be honest, the muslims in the srea where i come from are in no way totally muslims, they do not even know about the Koran..to make my point.....jsut wanna drop my 2 cents.

[crazyjoe380]

looks interesting..

[crazyjoe380]

english muffin is following me.. jesus.. tell the queen of england that i didn't mean to cum on her crown.

[HobbyAirport]

gosh that was mean

lionleo that was kind of mean , i think he was just inviting people to discuss martial arts.. gosh take it easy... be cool peace

[krys]

Well linleo,


I practice fmas with a highly skilled filipino muslim guru (i am catholic).
Having trained with other christian fma grandmasters I can say that he has a comparable level of skills.

Indeed there are very good muslim martial artists the problem is that filipino muslims in general are very secretive even between themselves.
In a familly with an expert every child might not be taught the same martial art. Some will learn Silat, other Eskrima or Kuntao.... and their muslim neighbours will never know that they practice martial arts.
I never was in Sarangani but there could be experts practicing their arts in the island.
It is nearly impossible to learn muslim arts outside the family (i was extremely lucky).
There are more than 100 styles of filipino silat, without counting local escrima and other less known martial arts.
Quite different from indonesian-malay stuff.... more agressive in my view.....

You are right when you say that silat is not entirely a muslim martial art. In Bali one can find Hindu silat and in Cambodia Budhist silat....

Not every filipino muslim knows and follows to the letter the Koran, there are black sheeps among them, exple the Abu Sayaff (bandits and addicts), MILF lost commands, Pentagon group .....
On the other hand they have their own traditions and saints.

Actually there is a conflict between people returning from the middle east (H. Salamat, other MILF cadres, islamic preachers....)
who want to introduce a more radical version of islam and muslim following the local traditions.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

[thekuntawman]

thank you krys, i forgot about this thread and i wanted to reply to lionleo.

the post was a mean one, and very wrong.

muslim martial arts, referring to the martial arts as practice by muslims, which uses a different philosophy than the same arts practiced by non-muslims. in the martial arts as practiced by a muslim, we treat the art as a true self defense tool, and we are not afraid to kill somebody or talk about killing somebody. muslims are also very disciplined people who are use to suffering and have it in our everyday life. in training for martial arts combat, we are more serious about training hard, protecting family and consider the practice of fighting arts to be the RESPONSIBILITY of the muslim man, especialy one who has a wife and children. muslims think about there religion at least 5 times a day, unlike many who only think about there religion once a week. for the muslim man who took the martial arts as part of his life, the martial arts practice is a part of practicing the religion, since we have a responsibility to protect our family and community. the death of a family member because a man did not prepare for protection, the blame rests on him as well as the attacker.

"the best fighting arts teachers there are not muslims..again they are not muslims"

wrong again. theres very few muslim teachers teaching in the open, especially for business like i am, but this is a statement you cannot prove. if we are talking about business, then maybe your right. if we are talking about fighting ability, that is something you will have to prove if you want to say it. nobody in my city would say that. and if we are talking about who is well known, well than, you are right, unless it depends to who you are asking who is a best fighting arts teacher.

as far as filipino muslims being "total muslims" i hate to even answer this question. what is a total muslim? like what is a total christian, because no catholic is a total christian according to your example. how many christians eat shellfish and pork, how many men confess his sins to another man or how many men can quote verses or discuss the bible. i am a born muslim, but i can discuss the bible better than most christian people. does this mean they are not real christians? how many christian fast for the period of the prophets, or can even name 10 prophets! i believe this was a post by a person who does not like muslims, so i have no more to say about that.

but if you learn martial arts from a muslim, who learned from a muslim, the chances are, you will get a very combative art, more combative than the commercialized seminar crap thats so popular, even taught by many FILIPINOS.

speaking of religious knowledge,
believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. and speak not of what you did not witness with your own eyes.

was that a christian saying, or muslim?

[Thai Bri]

See what happens when you bring religeon into the argument?

[krys]

Linleo said:
"To be honest, the muslims in the srea where i come from are in no way totally muslims, they do not even know about the Koran..to make my point....."

One does not need to have a deep knowledge of the Bible / Koran to be a good Christian or Muslim.

This is an old story from Mindanao (southern Philippines) on the subject.

Once an Arab missionary came to Cotabato (Mindanao island).
He was accompanied by four young men who had studied Islam in the Middle East. They arrived at the waterfront in Cotabato City at high noon because the young men wanted to bring the missionary across the wide Pulangi River in time to lead the prayers at the large mosque there. So they found a ferryman, a bankero. He was a very old man but he was the only one left because all the other bankeros were out taking their noon meals.
The four young men spoke to the old ferryman.
Grandfather, this man here is an ulama. Please carry him across the river.
When they reached the middle of the river the missionary looked at the old ferryman, who was in ragged attire and asked him, "Old man, do you know the five pillars of Islam and six articles of faith of Islam?". The old man replied, "No, I do not know them". The missionary asked him, "What is your religion?"

"I am a Muslim".

"Well then you must be telling me a lie", said the missionary.

"I am not liying, ulama, I do not know the five pillars of Islam and the six articles of faith of Islam"

"How could you not know them? You are an old man. What have you been doing all your life?"


"Since I was old enough to hold a paddle I have been ferrying people across the river.
In the rain, under the sun, during lightning and thunder, through heavy wawes, if somebody across the river calls me, "Bankero, please come paddle me across", I go and bring them across without any complaint." And the ulama said, "How much do these passenger pay you?"

"I do not know. Sometimes they place some coins in my boat. I leave that in the hands of Allah. I am just happy serving these people"

The missionary said, " I ask you again for the last time, is it true that in your 80 years you have not learned even one of the five pillars of Islam and the six articles of faith of Islam?"
The bankero said, "it is true I do not know even one, but I leave that in the hands of Allah".

The ulama replied, "Then most surelly you will never enter paradise. Most surelly you will go to narakah (hell)", immediately after he said those words, from nowhere a dark cloud engulfed the boat.
A violent wind came up, thunder crashed and the wawes began tor roll.
The missionary dropped his prayer beads and clutched the sides of the boat in fear.
The ferryman called to him over the wind, asking him if he knew how to swim.
Just then a huge wave capsized the boat.
The bankero swam to the shore safely but the body of the ulama was found the next day floating downstream.

Sultan Mohamad H. Adil (Cotabato).

The divine message sent with a thunderclap
is clear : saintliness expressed in direct humanitarian service thrumps formal religious learning everytime.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

[RobertG]

Last time I checked the Department of Homeland Security was not very keen on Muslims with knives. Given today's climate, unfortuantely promoting an Islamic martial art would seem to be a good way to wind up at Camp X-Ray.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by thekuntawman

muslim martial arts, referring to the martial arts as practice by muslims, which uses a different philosophy than the same arts practiced by non-muslims. in the martial arts as practiced by a muslim, we treat the art as a true self defense tool, and we are not afraid to kill somebody or talk about killing somebody. [QUOTE]

Ummm, yeah, we have sort of noticed that. See the above. Muslims talking about killing people=terrorism according to Ridge, Ashcroft, etc.

[QUOTE]
muslims are also very disciplined people who are use to suffering[QUOTE]

Really? The Dinka in Sudan would beg to differ. As would the Druze and other ethnic groups oppressed by Muslims. Muslims suffer just as much as any other people and oppress just as much as any other people.

[QUOTE]
and have it in our everyday life. in training for martial arts combat, we are more serious about training hard, protecting family and consider the practice of fighting arts to be the RESPONSIBILITY of the muslim man, especialy one who has a wife and children. muslims think about there religion at least 5 times a day, unlike many who only think about there religion once a week. for the muslim man who took the martial arts as part of his life, the martial arts practice is a part of practicing the religion, since we have a responsibility to protect our family and community. the death of a family member because a man did not prepare for protection, the blame rests on him as well as the attacker.
[QUOTE]

This is inane. Muslims do not train harder or more seriously than anyone else, nor do they have the a monopoly on piety, nor the desire to protect friend and family.

[QUOTE]
"the best fighting arts teachers there are not muslims..again they are not muslims"

wrong again. theres very few muslim teachers teaching in the open, especially for business like i am, but this is a statement you cannot prove. if we are talking about business, then maybe your right. if we are talking about fighting ability, that is something you will have to prove if you want to say it. nobody in my city would say that. and if we are talking about who is well known, well than, you are right, unless it depends to who you are asking who is a best fighting arts teacher.
[QUOTE]

This is also inane. Religion has very little to do with someone's ability to teach a martial art. Some atheists are great teachers, some Muslims are, some Jews are, some pagans are, some Christians are. Religion has NOTHING at all to do with teaching ability.

[QUOTE]
as far as filipino muslims being "total muslims" i hate to even answer this question. what is a total muslim? like what is a total christian, because no catholic is a total christian according to your example. how many christians eat shellfish and pork, how many men confess his sins to another man or how many men can quote verses or discuss the bible.[QUOTE]

Last time I checked Christians did not have to adhere to Kosher laws. Therefore they can eat all the shellfish and pork they want.

[QUOTE]
i am a born muslim, but i can discuss the bible better than most christian people. does this mean they are not real christians? how many christian fast for the period of the prophets, or can even name 10 prophets! i believe this was a post by a person who does not like muslims, so i have no more to say about that.
[QUOTE]

No one really gives a damn what religion you are. This is a martial arts forum. If you believe in Allah or Satan doesn't really matter one iota. If you want to discuss martial arts that evolved in Islamic countries, great, that would be fascinating. Your piety, however, is inconsequential to the discussion at hand.

[QUOTE]
but if you learn martial arts from a muslim, who learned from a muslim, the chances are, you will get a very combative art, more combative than the commercialized seminar crap thats so popular, even taught by many FILIPINOS.[QUOTE]

So you get undone because people have issues with Muslims and then you go throwing racist crap around about Filipinos. Ummm, yeah. Because you are Muslim does not mean you have a more effective art than anyone else. That is just absurd. The Filipino arts are battle tested and continue to be battle tested to this day. Muslims do not possess some magical techniques that others have never discovered. Human bodies are only capable of so many moves and every culture that fights hand-to-hand a lot is going to discover those moves. Allah did not pass down some secret moves just to Muslims. Where do you come up with this crap?? Lets put it this way...Muslims got overrun by the Mongols just like everyone else. There was not a large disparity between weapon technology in those days. Muslims had nothing at all in their martial arsenal that could deal with Mongols. Hey, neither did Christians. It would stand to reason that if Muslims had the most effective fighting arts then they would have been able to withstand the original onslaught of the Mongols. The Mongols had, among other attributes, better discipline than any other existing armies at that time (which also rather shoots down your assertion of superior Muslim disicpline), better strategy, and, of course, damn good horses and bow skills. This doesn't mean Mongols are the best fighters in the world either. Sorry, no ethnic/religious group has any monopoly on that claim. So don't start dragging religion and ethnicity into these discussions because they have no bearing on it.

speaking of religious knowledge,
believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. and speak not of what you did not witness with your own eyes.

was that a christian saying, or muslim? [/B]

Who cares?? Its not an original thought and the Greeks had similiar views a very long time before Jesus or Mohammed. It doesn't matter who said it or what religion they were.

[pseudoswitch]

[thekuntawman]

TROLL!!!!

[RobertG]

Originally posted by thekuntawman


TROLL!!!!

What an articulate response.

[Roland]

I just felt like pointing out that RobertG presents a point by point rebuttal of kuntawman's statements in the text AFTER "quote:", i.e. after the first two sentences in his post.

Just in case anyone skipped over that portion.

[Cavalry]

Muslim Martial Arts???

Muslim Martial Arts???

That doesn’t make sense. Wouldn’t the term Indonesian or South-east Asian Martial Art be more appropriate, when referring to Silat?

EVEN WITH the *STRONG TIES* between Buddhism and Kung fu, that is Shaolin Kung Fu being developed in a Buddhist temple, does anyone call KungFu a “Buddhist Martial Art?”

Doesn’t just using the term “Buddhist Martial Art” sound odd?

Kung Fu is called a Chinese Martial Art.

No-one puts up a sign saying“Buddhist Martial Arts” outside a Muay-thai Gym or a Kung fu school. Imagine Muay Thai matches being advertised as “Buddhist Boxing Matches.” How ridiculous.

Imagine the next De La Hoya boxing match being called a Christian Martial Arts bout.

Krav Maga is called an Isreali Martial Art, not a Jewish Martial Art.

Boxing is referred to as western boxing.

Judo is called a Japanese Martial Art, not a Buddhist Martial Art.

Martial Arts are universally identified by the region they developed in, not by the religion that eventually spread to the land they developed in.

It sounds like a person wants to refer to Silat as a “Muslim Martial Art” to give Islam, a religion, higher status and prestige with Martial Artists or feel a stronger sense of religious pride by referring to a Martial Art alongside with their religion.

Imagine all the martial arts gyms and schools with websites, and that teach Muay Thai, begin their websites with saying “Come learn Buddhist boxing! Muay Thai is an excellent Buddhist Martial Art!” Would that not sound ridiculous?

I have an aunt who married a wonderful Muslim man, and she converted to Islam. Her daughter, my cousin, is Muslim. I love and care for them both very much, so this is not an attack against Islam.

Islam is a beautiful religion, as are Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. But to begin referring to martial arts as Muslim/ Christian/ Jewish/ Hindu/ Buddhist martial arts sounds ridiculous.

Calling Silat, an Asian martial art, South-east Asian martial art, Indonesian or Malaysian martial art makes much more sense.