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A pen or a pencil is very efective in a fight

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  • #1

    A pen or a pencil is very efective in a fight

    Pen or Pencil is not as good as a knife but in USA there are strict rules.

    My sugggestion, always carry a pen or penicl because an FMA guy can always use it to thrust the eyes, the gut or in the case of being in the guard you can stab or thrust the inner thigh.
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#2
Are you sure, balisong? I can see it for eye pokes and such.. but I read a couple different articles that talk about what knife wounds really do (folder type knives..not long knives)..and how men rarely respond to a knife wound, or even 20 knife wounds, when they are determined, angry, or on crack.

I can see your point, what you're saying.. but given this data from hospitals, policemen, and actual knifers, I tend to wonder if the ballpoint wouldn't be something to giggle at..

I think I'd see a ballpoint more in the same light as nerve center attacks.. they aren't good as a primary weapon, but if you're caught up in a pin or a hold, it can sure get you that space to counter..of course, none of this is from experience, merely from reading and thinking..

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  • #3
    Originally posted by quietanswer
    Are you sure, balisong? I can see it for eye pokes and such.. but I read a couple different articles that talk about what knife wounds really do (folder type knives..not long knives)..and how men rarely respond to a knife wound, or even 20 knife wounds, when they are determined, angry, or on crack.

    I can see your point, what you're saying.. but given this data from hospitals, policemen, and actual knifers, I tend to wonder if the ballpoint wouldn't be something to giggle at..

    I think I'd see a ballpoint more in the same light as nerve center attacks.. they aren't good as a primary weapon, but if you're caught up in a pin or a hold, it can sure get you that space to counter..of course, none of this is from experience, merely from reading and thinking..
    Something to consider. Part of the reason that knife wounds go unnoticed is that they tend to be "clean." If a knife is sharp then there's little pain in the cut even without adrenaline. A thrust tends to hurt a little more ... but with the adrenaline, it won't be felt much more than a punch.

    A pen or pencil, however, on a thrust will be similar ... it's likely to invoke little or no immediate response. However, a cut (or, more appropriately, a tear) with the pen or pencil will likely hurt enough to get through even the adrenaline. So, after a jab to break the skin (doesn't much matter where it is), rip the tool out sideways causing the skin to tear.

    Another nice thing about a pen/pencil is that, in the eyes of the law, it's not a "weapon." You don't have to justify why you were carrying it ... and if you're asked why, then you can probably think of at least a dozen valid reasons off the top of your head.

    Mike

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    • #4
      "Another nice thing about a pen/pencil is that, in the eyes of the law, it's not a "weapon." You don't have to justify why you were carrying it ... and if you're asked why, then you can probably think of at least a dozen valid reasons off the top of your head."

      My point exactly.

      because the guard is such a common fighting "stance" these days, a pen and a basic knowledge of anatomy costs a lot less that BJJ classes or passing the guard videos. I believe that BJJ needs to evolve in such a way that it can realistically deal with this type of attack.

      Also,
      FMA is a brutal and violent art. Rorion Gracie says that GJJ is a humane way to effectively deal with an attacker.

      FMA is not a humane way to fight. It is cheap, dirty and brutally effective. One must understand that FMA was developed in the Philippines. And if you understand the Filipino, you will have a deeper appreciation of FMA.
      --------

      Number one strike is usually targeted to the opponenet's left temple. When using a pen, the number 1 angle becomes the neck.

      If you understand human anatomy, the pen is a great weapon if it is in your nature to fight with one.

      When you are at the bar and things get rough, here are your options:

      1. Grab a bottle and use it like a stick.
      2. Break the bottle and then use it like a blade.
      3. When they attack you with a bottle, remember the importance of the checking hand.

      Much of my training involves realistic situations and as funny as it sounds, I sometimes practice fighting empty hand vs. beer bottle.

      I am not a great fighter, but I always keep these things in mind when I feel uneasy about the situation I am in.

      Peace.

      [Edited by Balisong on 11-01-2000 at 01:44 AM]

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      • #5
        Originally posted by Balisong

        Number one strike is usually targeted to the opponenet's left temple. When using a pen, the number 1 angle becomes the neck.

        If you understand human anatomy, the pen is a great weapon if it is in your nature to fight with one.
        A guy I know carries toothpicks all the time. When he's in a situation that might get ugly, he pulls out a toothpick and puts it in his mouth. He told me a story that one night he and a friend were in a bar and had a verbal confrontation with some guys. The guys left in a huff. As Jim (not the guy's real name) and his buddy left, Jim thought about the possibilities of being ambushed and put a toothpick in his mouth. When they walked outside, they were jumped by the three guys. Jim took his toothpick out of his mouth and stabbed it into one of the guy's thighs. The guy grabbed his thigh and fell screaming to the ground ... out of the remainder of the fight. This evened the odds and Jim and his friend made it to their car and got away.

        Imagine if this had been a ballpoint pen instead of a toothpick :-)

        Another good shot with a pen is a "gunting." When a guy punches, slip the punch and parry with your empty hand while slamming the writing utensil into the guy's tricep or bicep (depending on what angle you use).

        Mike

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          • #6
          a toothpick to the thigh took a guy out?

          Are you pulling my nardies? I mean, I just saw top dog bash people with death blows and they fought on..in some cases, it was hard to tell they were hurt (though they were..)

          And i can disable an opponent with a toothpick?

          come on..this is starting to sound like a trs video ad..


          However, I can dig the thought about bottles. bottles are awesome.. very flippy, very fast.. they are great for siniwalli type hi-lo blows..1 angle labtik, lo backhand witik, high backhand labtik..etc.

          also, bottles don't break when you hit someone with them. i worked in a bar as a doorman, and one night the punk kids had a show that ended in a brawl. we were dragging people down stairs and out the door while they were still fighting in some cases. skins were hitting each other with newcastle bottles (in the skull, often) and they were ringing like chimes, but not breaking. I'm talking, hand over the head type caveman swings..

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          • #7
            Originally posted by quietanswer
            a toothpick to the thigh took a guy out?

            Are you pulling my nardies? I mean, I just saw top dog bash people with death blows and they fought on..in some cases, it was hard to tell they were hurt (though they were..)

            And i can disable an opponent with a toothpick?

            come on..this is starting to sound like a trs video ad..
            LOL ... I wasn't there, I'm only relating the story as it was told to me. However, the guy is very cool and I have no reason to doubt the story.

            The difference, though, between DB and this scenario is that these guys weren't expecting to see their own blood ... and certainly not that quickly :-) The DB guys go in with full knowledge and understanding that they could bleed/bruise/break very soon.

            There's something to be said for psychology in a fight. I heard another story about a guy in a bar who slapped another guy (open-handed, relaxed, "bitch" slap) ... he said the guy's eyes flew open and his hand went to his face and all aggression was gone from the guy ... if he'd have punched him (like guy was probably expecting and ready for), a fight probably would have ensued. As it was, there was no real injury but the guy was so stunned by the unexpected attack that he had no remaining urge to continue.

            Even if the toothpick hadn't taken the guy out, he'd have been at a detriment in a few moments when the muscle went into shock from the trauma. It might have caused nothing more than a limp ... but that's better than nothing :-)

            Mike

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              • #8

              Even if the toothpick hadn't taken the guy out



              I'm just having trouble digesting this sentence.

              it's just hard to believe you aren't pulling my leg.. I mean.. how much trouble is a toothpick going to do? and how on earth do you get a toothpick to penetrate a pair of jeans without breaking, muchless a beefy thigh muscle?

              you got some odd friends, mike...

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              • #9
                Originally posted by quietanswer

                Even if the toothpick hadn't taken the guy out



                I'm just having trouble digesting this sentence.

                it's just hard to believe you aren't pulling my leg.. I mean.. how much trouble is a toothpick going to do? and how on earth do you get a toothpick to penetrate a pair of jeans without breaking, muchless a beefy thigh muscle?

                you got some odd friends, mike...
                LOL ... yes, I do have odd friends. Of course, this guy also does Wing Chun sets on a stainless steel Mook Jong ... he says that the traditional hardwood dummy feels "spongy" to him now :-)

                Mike

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                  • #10
                  where on earth does one acquire a stainless steel dummy?

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                  • #11
                    back-up

                    just backing up q-a, the toothpick story, i dunno . . .

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                    • #12
                      Some pretty good points here, I'm enjoying this thread actually and finding it "informative". I can see myself sticking my pen as deep as I can into a guys eye before I open up that can of "Whoop Ass". Regarding the toothpick, I used to smoke, but I kinda quit...long story...point is that whenever I felt 'uncomfortable' or whatevers, similar to Mikes friend and the toothpick, I would light a cig, so I could put it out in his face before I start practicing my kicks and stuff on him. Unfortunately, I never got to use the cig this way, but oh, well. Anyway, great topic, guys.

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by quietanswer
                        where on earth does one acquire a stainless steel dummy?
                        As I understand it, one of his students (or maybe several chipped in) bought it for him. As to where it was purchased, I think it was a limited edition project by someone in the area (i.e.: he made like 3 of them).

                        Regards, Mike

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                        • #14
                          thigh-shot

                          if you hit a guy in the thigh with a stainless-steel dummy, he'll drop, i'm telling you . . .

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                          • #15
                            Toothpick

                            A toothpick through jeans? Please. I work in a prison, pens and pencils are common and should be feared.Be it the throat,eyes,abdomen,inner thigh etc., they can kill.Particularly if you snap a pencil off in the target.

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