Silat info

[Hakoko]

I was wondering if there is a difference with Pukulan Pentjack Silat Serak from Paul De Thouars and Bukti Negara from Paul De Thouars. Any info would be appreciated.

[sikal]

I haven't personally met Paul but I've been exposed to some Bukti Negara and I've trained in Serak with Victor.

From what I've seen, I'd say that there are definite differences. But it's also easy to see the connection between the two.

It's hard for me to go into much more detail than that.

Both are good systems. They are definitely related. But they're not the same.

Mike

[Hakoko]

so there are differences in the two systems of Paul De Thouars. I was wondering if you know why he teaches two systems of Silat. I think mainly now he teaches Bulti Negara.

[sikal]

To my knowledge, Paul has never publicly taught Serak.

As I understand it, he developed BN as a sort of weeding machine. BN was developed to provide a kind of gateway into Serak. It gives the student valuable tools and weeds out people who aren't serious about training. At the same time, it builds a platform that works as a springboard when they start training in the Serak.

BN is the "open door" art. Serak is the "hidden" art that BN leads to.

Please note, this is my impression of the situation and may be inaccurate. For a complete and "official" explanation, you'd have to ask Paul or, at least, a BN player.

But, as far as I know, Paul has never publicly taught Serak. The only person that I'm aware of who publicly teaches Serak from Paul is Guru Stevan Plinck (who is an *excellent* martial artist and teacher, and a really cool guy). The only other public sources (in the US) for Serak, as far as I know, are Victor de Thouars and some Mande Muda players. The Sera in Mande Muda is different from what Victor teaches -- but it's very evident that it comes from the same original source.

There are other people who have trained in Serak but, to my knowledge, Stevan Plinck, Victor de Thouars, and some of the Mande Muda people are the only public sources for Serak material here in the US. If there's anyone else publicly teaching (who's not affiliated with one of these 3), I'm not aware of them -- but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Mike

[Bligh]

How does Willem De Thouars' Kuntao-Silat relate to the BN and Serak taught by his brothers?

[Bligh]

Or the Serah(k) taught within the Ratu Adil System of Rudy Ter Linden?

[sikal]

Uncle's Kuntao Silat has some influences from the Serak, of course. He grew up being exposed to it and has trained in it with, at least, their uncle Eddie de Vries and with Victor. He may have also trained in it with others, but I don't know for sure.

But the Serak influence on Uncle's material is rather like a single spice in a stew. It's there and it adds its specific flavor to the mix ... but if you're not specifically looking for it, you probably won't notice it or be able to identify it.

His art has been influenced by many systems of both Silat and Kuntao. For a more complete list, visit http://www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com (not sure how up-to-date the site is, but there's some info there about the various influences on his system of Kuntao Silat).

Mike

[Roland]

Hi, Mike!

Are you all settled in?



Roland

[Bligh]

Are students of one DeThouars brother typically allowed to train with the other two DeThouars borthers, say in a seminar setting?

(meaning basically, "Are politics a factor within the family?")

[sikal]

Originally posted by Roland
Hi, Mike!

Are you all settled in?



Roland

Hey! Yeah, pretty much. Teaching in my living room right now and hoping to get a better place in the not-too-distant future (i.e.: 6 months to a year), but doing OK.

I've got a few students and a couple of guys interested in Sayoc so I'm going to be starting a training group here over the next couple of months (we'll be under Guru Ken's guidance).

I'm hoping to make Sama-Sama but I don't know if I'll be able to swing the finances for it this year. But I'm going to do everything in my power to do so.

My wife is living here, too, now so that's good. Unfortunately, it means she left her consulting gig and is a regular corporate employee again. In the long run, it'll work out better because of the benefits. In the short run, though, it means she's making about half as much money as she was. And I'm not making a whole lot teaching ... and making less writing. We're not doing bad, but things are a little tight right now (especially dealing with the taxes).

How're you doing?

Mike

[Roland]

I can't complain although I missed training for a couple of months near the end of last year due to a couple of flus topped off with the oh-so-wonderful strep throat .

I hope you can make it to Sama Sama - it was a blast last year.

BTW, I missed the preview to Bubba Hotep when it was shown in Houston - I went to get tickets and they were sold out . In retrospect, it was rather naive of me to go get the tickets at the last minute. I didn't realize how big of a fan base Bruce Campbell had over here.

[sikal]

Originally posted by Roland
I can't complain although I missed training for a couple of months near the end of last year due to a couple of flus topped off with the oh-so-wonderful strep throat .

I hope you can make it to Sama Sama - it was a blast last year.

BTW, I missed the preview to Bubba Hotep when it was shown in Houston - I went to get tickets and they were sold out . In retrospect, it was rather naive of me to go get the tickets at the last minute. I didn't realize how big of a fan base Bruce Campbell had over here.

Yup. We got down there something like 4 hours beforehand and it was already sold out. Joe had, fortunately, reserved a chunk of tickets for everyone from the school who was going so we got seats. It's a really cool movie. Very bizarre, but so was the story it's based on so that wasn't surprising. What was surprising was how closely they stuck to the story.

I hope it gets picked up by a distributor. It'd never be a blockbuster, I don't think. But I'm sure it'd become a cult classic (as many of Bruce Campbell's films have).

A couple of other things by Joe have been optioned but that doesn't mean much. Hollywood is a strange place and it's entirely possible that they'll sit on the option until it expires. Which works for Joe because he got his money from the option and, once the option expires, he's free to sell the option to any other movie folks who might be interested. And when they option a story for a movie, they pay amazingly well.

Mike

[sikal]

Originally posted by Bligh
Are students of one DeThouars brother typically allowed to train with the other two DeThouars borthers, say in a seminar setting?

(meaning basically, "Are politics a factor within the family?")

Hm. Politics are a factor. When I was affiliated with Pak Vic, I never heard him forbid anyone from training with anyone ... whether he approved or not.

I can't imagine Uncle Bill ever forbidding people from training with other people, including his own brothers.

But, personally, I wouldn't want to go to a seminar with, for instance, Paul. Simply because, at some point, Paul is likely to notice that I've got a lot more skill/understanding than the average Joe who attends his seminars. And he's likely to ask me who I train with. Me, being who I am, would respond honestly ... and I'm not sure what kind of hornet's nest that might stir up. But even in a best case scenario, it would make for a very uncomfortable training atmosphere so I prefer to avoid it.

Did that answer your question?

Mike

[Ray White]

I just read a VERY nice article on Mande Muda Silat by Mike Young. It was part of this months Dragon's List email newsletter. Very nice history and breakdown of its influences.

Does anyone know if Mike Young has a website? I believe this is the same Mike Young who does the "make your own training equipment" books.

Ray

[sikal]

Originally posted by Ray White
I just read a VERY nice article on Mande Muda Silat by Mike Young. It was part of this months Dragon's List email newsletter. Very nice history and breakdown of its influences.

Does anyone know if Mike Young has a website? I believe this is the same Mike Young who does the "make your own training equipment" books.

Ray

I know that it is the same guy, but I don't know if he has a website.

Mike