i am pissed off now

[thekuntawman]

this post i made on bladeforums and i am posting it to other FMA websites.

https://www.huntedmovie.com

look for "train for combat" and then find "kali"

after all of the talking we do about what are the true philippine martial arts, authtentic martial arts of the philippines TODAY....(kali vs. arnis and eskrima) now we have the non-martial arts public is told from this website, and the movie, that the ancient art of kali is pass down for hundreds of years in secret. this is so much bullshit the people who gave this information KNOWS they art is arnis-eskrima with a new "revived" name of KALI. so now, every authentic philippine martial arts instructor who might benefit from the popularity from this movie, is going to be passed over, so that the movie goer can find this "ancient secret art" of KALI.

this is my problem with you guys who use the words and throw them out to all the non-FMA who dont know the truth. pananantukan, kinomutai, blind princesses, muslim kali, and everybody wears a machete....these informations are being given over and over by men who might been told the myth a long time ago, then they found out the truth, now they are continuing to tell the garbage they know is not true to people who dont know better.

so where does this leave the FILIPINO philippine martial artists and his students? we are over looked, so that the ignorant can chase fancy stories about stuff they read in the magazine and computer, and now, the movies.

YOU GUYS KNOW NOW, WHAT IS KALI AND WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS, AND YOU STILL WANT TO TELL YOUR OWN VERSION OF OUR HISTORY. why not? you do it with every body else history, the filipino might as well be next.

[JIMI]

[Kingston]

lol That hunted movie is gunna be hilarious.

i love any movie where they have "the best of the best"...."how do you know he's the best?"....."because i trained him" LOL.

i cant wait to laugh all the way through it.....maybe when i see it my opinion will change....but right now its on my "must see comedy list"

and everyone knows you go to russia for knife techniques.

[Hakoko]

I'm not sure what the point is exactly. However, two of the technical advisors (knife) are from Sayoc Kali. Rafael Kayanan, Tom Kier, were the technical advisors for The Hunted. The Sayoc Clan can trace their family art and its lineages for several generations. The Sayoc's and Sayoc Kali are the real deal.

[sikal]

Originally posted by Kingston
lol That hunted movie is gunna be hilarious.

i love any movie where they have "the best of the best"...."how do you know he's the best?"....."because i trained him" LOL.

i cant wait to laugh all the way through it.....maybe when i see it my opinion will change....but right now its on my "must see comedy list"

and everyone knows you go to russia for knife techniques.

Actually, I know one of the knife choreographers and have heard a lot of good things about the other. They're both excellent with knives and have a lot of skill and ability. And, from what I've heard, they actually managed to get some decent knife work into the film.

Of course, getting decent knife work in a Hollywood film is very difficult for a lot of reasons.

First, is the film medium. Decent knife work would be a blur of motion and blood. Not very exciting for movie goers to see. Movie goers want to see flashy techniques and be "wowed." Decent knife work would be practically invisible on screen except to experienced eyes. All martial arts on film have to be exaggerated.

Second, the directors are a lot more concerned with camera angles and what looks good to the movie goers (from the previous point) than what is or isn't realistic.

Third, how much *real* knife work do we really want to get out into the general public eye?

But, from what I've heard, they did get some in there.

And since I like Tommy Lee Jones, I'm sure I'll like this movie Also, from my perspective, it's kinda cool to watch a movie when I personally know someone who's involved in the making of it.

Mike

[thekuntawman]

for technqiue, there is none. 99.9999% of what you see is "kali" out there was eskrima or arnis, and the name was changed to "kali" for whatever reasons. yes, i have heard the "just a name" garbage, but let us please tell the truth:

* there is no REAL DIFFERENCE OF KALI, ARNIS AND ESKRIMA, THAN JUST A NAME. KALI IS NOT "MORE COMPLETE" OR "MORE ANCIENT"

*yes, maybe a long time ago there was KALI being used as a word, maybe a separate style, but not any more. and don't listen to the "the philippines has 1,000 languages so how do you know" garbage too. maybe in a barrio somewhere there is some old guy who kept this art alive in secret in his family for 400 years, but none of the people who claim this word today are part of that group. they are all arnis/eskrima who use the word KALI today.

*styles of philippine martial arts have many categories, but most of them only have 3 or 4. the only real reason i can see a style today having so many categories is if the instructor created them, but this does not mean his style is better or "more complete" than styles with 3 categories. really from what i see most styles who claim to have all these categories and weapons they teach, only have a little bit in each, then a whole system of 3 or 4 like everyone else. the only school i know about who has many categories that you can study just that weapons or specialize in them is ernesto presas' ARJUKEN, where you can come and sign up to learn just the chakos or just staff or just single stick.

"AUTHENTIC KALI SCHOOLS"
GAUDIOSA RUBY---COMJUKA ARNIS, KUNTAW NG PILIPINAS
LEO GAJE/PEKITI TIRSIA---PEKITI TIRSIA ARNIS
BEN LEMA SCIENTIFIC KALI....---LIGHTNING SCIENTIFIC ARNIS
SAYOC KALI---PEKITI TIRSIA ARNIS
DAN INOSANTO'S KALI/JKD---SERRADA ESKRIMA, EDGAR SULITE'S ESKRIMA, VILLABRILLE KALI (his teacher in the philippines is known as a ARNIS teacher)
RICHIE ACOSTA'S KUNTAW KALI---DOCE PARES ESKRIMA, KUNTAW NG PILIPINAS, LSA (ben lema)
ILLUSTRISIMO KALI---ILLUSTRISIMO ARNIS

this is all i can think of. i cannot criticize the use of the word KALI because i use it too in some of my advertising to get people in the door. but i NEVER tell someone that KALI is more ancient and complete and passed down through the years...and you learn it here. especially when you know better, it is dishonest to tell people this stuff. no matter what your technique is or how good it is, why tell people a false history of another culture?

[thekuntawman]

mike
i am sure i am going to like this movie to. and i do respect all style of martial arts, i didnt know this was sayoc kali when i wrote the post. it doesnt matter anyway, because my point is, a big movie is finally going to pay some attention to the philippine martial arts, and what do they tell them? "kali is and older more complete art". that's bullshit. yes the name is older, but you are not going to find that art we read about in the books. you are going to find arnis and eskrima, but some people will call it kali. and no it is not pass down from the people who do kali, but it is arnis and eskrima that is passed down through the years. when you tell that story, ALL arnis and eskrima teachers will compete against KALI. so what do we do? let somebody tell a false history of our martial art, and change our name so we can get students?

by the way, SAYOC KALI, did not come through generations, but from leo gaje's pekiti tirsia ARNIS.

[ap Oweyn]

good god, i wish i had so little to worry about that this sort of thing got me riled up. how nice that would be.

[sikal]

Originally posted by ap Oweyn
good god, i wish i had so little to worry about that this sort of thing got me riled up. how nice that would be.

LOL Yeah, I'm not riled at all. To me, they're just words. There are so many dialects in the PI and so many names for stuff. I mean, aside from Eskrima, Arnis, and Kali, there are also terms like Pagkalikali -- it's all FMA to me. I use the term Kali because that's what my instructor used. But I've also been influenced by systems that call themselves Eskrima and Arnis.

Mike

[sikal]

by the way, SAYOC KALI, did not come through generations, but from leo gaje's pekiti tirsia ARNIS.

As far as I know, Sayoc Kali existed as a family system long before Pekiti Tirsia came into the picture. The Sayoc guys that I'm farmiliar with readily admit there's PT influence. But there was, I'm sure, also Sayoc influence on PT. But Sayoc Kali was an entity (though not always called "Sayoc Kali" before the PT influence).

For a much more detailed history, visit their website and ask around in their forum (in fact, there's currently a thread related to this topic there).

Mike

[JKDude]

Three months of Systema and Kingston is already laughing at MAs and movies as if he were the seasoned Vlad himself...

Being condescending really works better when one has some expertise, authority etc.

As chewie would say: "get your head out of your ass!" I'm sure Systema is great, but put a sock in it at least until you've gotten somewhere.

I'll be sure to stress this point in person (i.e. fight to the death in Bleviss' class)

[William]

I just use the generic term, "Philippine Combative Martial Arts" to describe what I do/teach to folks unfamiliar with the FMA's. I have studied under four different instructors since I started training in the FMA around 89 - 90 (Two I still train with). One called it Eskrima, two called it Arnis, and one calls it Kali. When I teach, I give credit to where it came from (what they taught it to me as). For the past year it's been Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, not because of the name, but because of its effectiveness.

As someone stated above, there are 1000 different dialects and probably close to as many different Islands that make up the Philippines. You also hear many different versions of Filipino history, martial lineage's, and word origins. Where does one begin to sort them out? For most of us who are not from the Philippines, it's our instructors. I have also read different books and web sites pertaining to P.I/ FMA history and they don't always agree. Even different Filipino scholars saying "yes, Kali is a real word that comes from such an such", and others like your self who say it isn't.

So, in the end, I pass on what was passed to me, and also recommend that my student's do their own research on P.I. history.

But to be honest, Combative effectiveness is most important to me. Then comes history (a close second).

William

[William]

BTW, Rafael is also a frequent contributor over on the Dog Bother forum as well.


William

[Kingston]

ooooh so thats how its gunna be eh?....

Originally posted by JKDude
Three months of Systema and Kingston is already laughing at MAs and movies as if he were the seasoned Vlad himself...

Being condescending really works better when one has some expertise, authority etc.

As chewie would say: "get your head out of your ass!" I'm sure Systema is great, but put a sock in it at least until you've gotten somewhere.

I'll be sure to stress this point in person (i.e. fight to the death in Bleviss' class)

your dead meat buddy
iv been taking systema about 2 weeks longer then you have JKD,
and dont you foget it mister!!

funny, i mentioned what i wrote on this post to you earlyer today...
ya didn't talk then! guess you become a badass when your behind a computer screen

if your as tough on monday as you are in this post you mite stand a chance.....

hoho im angry

after we watch the movie i mite be willing to acept your apology....if your still around to give it that is

[JKDude]

I was so scared I couldn't say anything..Gotta hide behind my Viewsonic.

But you must agree, a little humility and concession never hurt anybody.

Who knows? Maybe useless TKD and poser Karate and flawed JKD and impractical Arnis will teach you a thing or two.