Opinions from FMA Artists

[swan104]

I get the impression that there are two types of people that practice FMAs:

1. Ones that train solely in the FMA/Kali/Escrima under a FMA instructor.

2. JKD Concepts people, under the Inosanto lineage. They will train in JKD Concepts, and possibly also Sifu Inosanto's blend of FMA within the curriculum. Using the philosophy of JKD, the FMAs are then blended into your overall skills

I fall into category 2. What do the "hardcore" students of the FMAs (such as the people that train and study in the Phillipines) feel about the JKD people that dabble in FMAs? Do you think they've missed the point or overseen anything?

I've read that there are terms like "Kino Mutai", "Panantukan" etc that are not used in the Phillipines and only by JKD students? Is there any anger or resentment from the FMA community that JKD people are training in the FMAs in the manner they do?

[smash]

Kinumutai. It merely describes a particular fighting sequence. Example. 2 women go at each other. What would they do? Pinching, gouging, scratching or any similar act. It merely describes how they are fighting. Visayan word, Central PI. Rootword is kumut (squeeze). Panuntukan, Tagalog, from the word sundok, to strike, punch.

[moromoro]

i myself and a hardcore student of the FMA.

i look at you inosanto people as good at JKD but not at eskrima all you do is JKD and NOT REAL ESKRIMA...

[Hakoko]

How do practitioner's in PI fell towards the Dog Brothers?

[haumana2000]

My two cents....
I think it has more to do with the method of training, and the individual practitioner than the material. Grtowing up, I never thought of what I was learning as a martial art (FMA) It was just learning to fight like a dad would teach his sons to box. I was never really given cool names, belts, or anything else, in fact, I wanted to do Karate or Kung fu, because everyone else was doing it! (Like when your a kid, and your friends get mcdonalds, and your mom insists she'll make you a better burger at home!) I was never really given a code of ethics, or "budo". When I was in high school, I hung out with all pinoys or islanders at school and developed that whole "we gotta represent" attitude. So it was only natural that when I firs saw the JKD guys practicing I felt discontent for them, like they were somehow inferior practitioners and just imitators. I realized that much of what I was seeing as poor quality was because many of those guys would either learn a little from seminars, videos, or other less than ideal methods of teaching. They were practicing FMA for like one or maybe two hours a week, and then it would be heavan six, and sombrada drills. Than calling themselves FMA.
For a long while nI thought this was the extent of JKD, Kali, until I looked a little deeper and found that that there are actually quite a few instructors who have found that true FMA spirit and training. Here are a few names:
Of Course Dan,
Chris Kent,
Cass Magda,
Blaise Loong,
Ted Lukaylukay,
Dog Brothers

and I feel that rick tucci's material is pretty good as well.
The point is that if you want true FMA, than you have to be willing to:
1. put in the time both on the training floor, and in sparring/fighting
2. know the history and not just read one article and at least understand the geography, language structure people etc...
3. if possible, take a trip to the source.
4. understand not just a physical technique, but why it works, and how it can be applied to other situations scenarios, etc..

I think any contempt these days stems, that you see schools plastered with what I call "LOGO SOUP" claiming to teach all these things, but having very little real understanding of any of them.

Traditional FMA, can stand on it's own two feet as a solo art, for those people who mix it, I say hey, whatever makes you perosnally more rounded, is on you. Only you know your body type, size, capacity for learning etc.. Just make sure that you are true to yourself in your training because if your not the only who suffers is you. Dont just make logo soup cause it looks cool.

sorry this is so long.

[moromoro]

DOG WHO????????????

[Juramentado]

Originally posted by moromoro
i myself and a hardcore student of the FMA.

i look at you inosanto people as good at JKD but not at eskrima all you do is JKD and NOT REAL ESKRIMA...

More or less, I agree. But I wouldn't put it that bluntly LOL

I think the JKD people are studying FMA to understand certain concept. JKD is after all a set of concepts.

The FMA are entire systems and I don't see how studying JKD can provide an in-depth understanding of FMA.

Personally, it would be better to get into FMA than study JKD rather than the other way around..

Originally posted by Hakoko
How do practitioner's in PI fell towards the Dog Brothers?

With so many styles of FMA at the source, it's difficult to have a definitive answer to your question. Most don't agree on even the most seemingly trivial matters and I guess you'll get responses ranging from an eagerness to trade blows with them to thinly veiled contempt.

There have been similar matches like that in the provinces here (I've personally heard of one, as told by the people who fought) so that kind of full contact is not unheard of. I think some of the Dog Bros. have been here so they know how it is.

Among the guys I train with, I'd say that we admire them for their skill and heart.

Oh and I won't be the least bit surprised if some guys here put up a similar tournament soon and bring the intensity up a notch..

E ganun talaga ang Pinoy, hindi pagpapatalo..hehehe

[haumana2000]

I believe that The Pekiti guys are planning a Juego Todo NHB tournament to include all aspects of Filipino Martial arts, both weapon and hands. Also, I have to admiere the fact that The Dog Brothers are at least trying to bring the FMA to the forefront of NHB by training an empty hand fight team as well in the empty hand aspect. I have always prided myself on representing our native arts in the ring with little outside influence other than those native to the pacific and archipelago. Have any of you seen any of the Pekiti NHB stuff? I am curious to it's material

Salamat po,

"Professor David James" of Vee Arnis with a drawn blade to a skilled grappler at a summit.....
"Grapple me damnit! Grapple me!" Where is Your grappling?!!!
hee,hee,hee.

[Juramentado]

Originally posted by haumana2000


I believe that The Pekiti guys are planning a Juego Todo NHB tournament to include all aspects of Filipino Martial arts, both weapon and hands....

Really? hmm...who told you about this?

If and when it does happen, you'll read about it here..

[haumana2000]

it was posted by Manong Gaje on the Pekiti Europe website. interesting indeed!

[haumana2000]

from Manong Gaje's post:

For the commentary PEKITI IN THE UFC, for the
information of those who wants to know, we are
presently undergoing preparation training our Team
fighters for the EXTREME ULTIMATE FIGHTING which we
will announce not too long from now. The Team Fighters
are trained in the most extreme ultimate way to
withstand against all posibilities. they are train
both in weaponry and the dirty art with dirty tricks,
filipino technology no mixture of any other arts. THE
DUMPAG of the pekiti-tirsia system.In the challenge,
we will fight their rules after win or lose they will
fight our rules in another match the same time.

There will be a contest in extreme stickfighting and
knifefighting and the unarmed combat all is allowed.

So, for those who wants to test register now and send
to us your names and we will announce the competition
to be held in MANILA year 2003 sponsored by the
government and the private sector.We will first make
it happen in the PHILIPPINES and from then on we will
bring our best fighters anywhere in the world.

[Kiwi]

As someone who has trained in more traditional style FMA and then moved to LA and trained in Inosanto blend, I would have to disagree with dividing into two categories. I look at the diversity within the many styles in the FMA and consider Inosanto blend to be just one more.

Yes, it is well known and widespread and Inosanto trains in many arts, but so what? That does not make his style any less valid. When you look at his teachers you see that his style comes from authentic sources.

JKD compliments traditional styles of FMA very nicely, not that FMA needs JKD, but if it is there to be explored, why ignore it, just to stay "pure". The FMA drew influence from many many sources, so why stop evolving now?

I see Inosanto blend as the logical evolution of the FMA here in LA and parts of the US. Why draw a line?

All the knowledge is there for the taking in most of the Filipino styles, you just have to look deep enough to find it. This includes Inosanto blend.

Remember, JKD and Inosanto Kali are two separate entities. You can train one or the other, or both. Just because someone trains JKD under Inosanto, does not mean they claim to know Eskrima.
If you want to see Inosanto FMA, you need to train with someone who really knows his version of the FMA. Do not confuse the two.

Regards,
Kiwi

[Kiwi]

Just a quick note...I am no expert on either side, nor do I claim to represent the opinions of Inosanto or any of his students. These are just my opinions.

Thanks,
Kiwi

[terry]

I noticed several years ago that the trend is towards separation of arts, and this is reflected in the changing curriculum in the Inosanto Academy's classes. I asked Guro Dan about this up at the Oregon Thai Camp in 2000. (I still can't believe I was lucky enough to wind up with him as a sparring partner for a week.) He acknowledged that trend. There interesting thing is when I followed up as to why this was happening--I was thinking that maybe it was a better teaching method--he answered that it is because of the nasty political situation between arts.

I finally asked him how should I teach and should I blend or separate things in my group. He encouraged me to blend things and said that in my garage group that I didn't have much in the way of politics to worry about.

Terry

[haumana2000]

Kiwi, I accidentally posted a reply to you in the related thread "matter at Hand"