the matter at hand

[haumana2000]

Kiwi, Kia Ora, ano bro, (assuming that you may actually be a kiwi)
I do agree with you, that both JKD, and JKD kali are effective arts, my opinion is merely stating, that those who train in "logo soup" or for the commercial reason of touting that they actually know something of each art should be truthful in their lack of knowledge. I completely agree that Manong Inosanto is a reputuable and respected source. And that the methods he has gleamed are very valid indeed from valid sources. I respect those he has learned from such as sam tendencia, leo giron, leo gaje, juanito lacoste, and I know there are many more. I am saying that as the line goes down you start to have those who would see an immediate marketing opportunity i.e
"WOW, watch a video, attend a seminar, and look what I can now offer to the community". I used to be on the other end of the spectrum, thinking that besides him and a few others, very few actually had a full understanding. But this was me being a young ethnocentric full of piss and vinegar male. I know know that it is up to each practitioner to know in his heart that what he is doing is real, valid, and functional. As far as the terms panantukan, kino mutai, etc.. Hey I don't have a problem with it at all it only helps put a structure to what has traditionally been unstructured, and if it helps bring our native styles to the forefront, then thats good too. But I do have to smirk, when I get a 16 year old, kid from suburbia, telling me that he teaches a lost art called "kino-tukan" (GET IT?) from the philippines, like I somehow missed the loop on cultural awareness.... Oh, well, why be complaining, wehen we could be training! gotta go!

[haumana2000]

damn my spelling sucks!
"Im not vewy smart, but I can lift heavy tings"

[swan104]

I think you should be truthful in what you know as well. JKD people like Sifus Dan Inosanto and Cass Magda have put in the time to learn the FMAs as thoroughly as possible. I've stated in other posts that I would be too ashamed to say I train in the FMAs, Silat, or even Muay Thai for that matter. Even though JKD allows you to borrow training principles from them and allows you to explore them deeper, it does not make you a master at them. I would never say I train in Kali/escrima, unless I actually put in the quality time and devote whole classes and time to it.

Doing a JKD drill, whereby you flow from boxing in trapping and then into a Silat takedown does not make you a boxing, wing chun and Silat master.

I feel the true beauty of JKD is that it does allow you to sample and borrow from different arts. If there is a an art that you like, you can explore further, and learn from the source.

Now, I will always say I am a student of JKD, even though I dabble in Kali and Silat.

[terry]

That's cool. You're core in JKD and cross train in FMA and Silat. I wouldn't worry about getting criticized by other people. At the end of the day, the fighters will look at nothing more than whether you can stand up to a good guy. Similarly, the martial arts purists (usually non-fighters) will measure you in terms of how well you stack up to their--frequently narrow--conception of the martial arts.

Just train hard and learn all you can. Train with good guys. And try not to get caught up in the politics.

Terry

[pcarney]

Originally posted by terry


Just train hard and learn all you can. Train with good guys. And try not to get caught up in the politics.

Terry

That's all you can do, of course. The politics of MA are ludicrious, though. I've seen perfectly good learning environments come apart because very valid, very good instructors suddenly turn into prima donnas. It pisses me off!

[moromoro]

they are true JKD guys, the level of FMA they have does not compare to the level of some guys in the philippines

[kruzada]

Interesting thread. I thought that the following information might be of interest to all who have contributed to this discussion.

I visited Grandmaster Charlie Villanueva of "Lao Lan" at his home in Manila in 1998 and he showed me a list of individuals who are recognized as Grandmasters in the Philippines, by an organization whose name I unfortunately cannot recall.

I read down the list and found many individuals whose names I didn't recognize, but amongst the names of those I could recognize was Dan Inosanto.

I related this to a friend of mine who is now a Full Instructor under Dan Inosanto in JKD and the Filipino Martial Arts, after he had asked me a similar question to the one you are discussing here. I was pleased that this seemed to enhance his sense of pride in what he was learning.

This person had helped me promote the FMA at a few demonstrations at local colleges on the East Coast when my own guys couldn't find the time, without the thought of whether or not Kali JKD would recieve equal billing for the demonstration. He just wanted to help promote the FMA to other Filipinos regardless of who was recieving the credit.

He is of Filipino descent, and has alot of pride in his heritage. I have seen him in action and I believe that he has been well trained in the FMA.

I don't think that you can really generalize all Kali JKD practitioners as being inferior, in regards to the FMA, to those who have dedicated their training solely to Eskrima or Arnis. However I do believe that if you want to call yourself an Eskrimador, Arnisador, and/or Filipino martial artist you should dedicate as much time to training in these arts as a traditional FMA practitioner would, in addition to the other arts that JKD Concept practitioners do.

It's not what you know. It's what you do that counts.

[Kiwi]

Kia Ora Haumana,

Yes I am a "Kiwi" kiwi. My post was aimed mainly at the original post. I tend to agree with you on most points.

Can't stop long right now (work), but I will be around.

Catch ya...
Kiwi

[haumana2000]

Kia ora ano brotha Kiwi,

stop in when ya can

Kia Kaha.