Why I don't do Kali

[haumana2000]

I found this in a web search, Where I live home invasions are on the rapd rise as well. So I would ask you, if your gun is locked up, and you are attacked in your bed, but all you have trained is an art that enables your chi to flow freely, for health and well being, what will you do? If you had to scramble from your bed to the pair of scissors, on your nightstand, or grasp for your wife's metal nail file as you and your attacker fell from the bed in a heap of rolling violence. What about the screwdriver you were using to fix your daughters skates, or your fold up pocket tool thats in the pants you were wearing last night? Maybe, if you had trained for the worst possible scenario you could imagine, and had practiced locating your folder in the dark, maybe, just maybe, if you had trained to pull him close and bite off his ear, to weaken his grip as he sits atop your chest, then attempt at least to lever the blade from the hands that are now trying to stab you with a knife from your own kitchen. Maybe as you and him both roll from the bed and as he hits the floor with his weapon wileding hand and drops it, you and him both scramble for the blade, and you get there first. oh.... sorry, you ant picture yourself cutting someone. Darn! well, maybe he'll play nice and let you have do-overs.

I'm a firefighter/medic/air crash and rescue trained person.This a.m. at 07:48 we were summoned to the scene of a home invasion. In the kitchen was a police officer and one of the victims who had a lacerated finger and thumb. The police told us that the other victim was in an upstairs bedroom and "it was bad". In the bedroon was a man on the bed, on his hands and knees, butt up and head down on a pillow. He had slashing wounds as well as puncture wounds all over his posterier torso. When we rolled him over is when it got really gruesome. He had his neck slashed and all the veins/arteries severed. He had a long slash to his flank, many puncture wounds and a large laceration to his left chest. He was essentially DOA but had a complex on the monitor so we "worked" him. The story was that one intruder entered the home and attacked the DOA. The roommate heard his friend yelling "get him off me!" Upon entering his friends room he saw a man dressed in a ninja outfit with a sword. He put his hand up to defend himself and recieved the wounds to his hand. At the E.R. the staff "cracked" his chest to find his heart alnost completely severed in 2. The ventricals were seperated form the atria. He bled out into his thorax where it all coagulated. The staff said that they had never seen a heart so nearly completely severed. Witnesses at the scene said that there were 2 people seen running from the home. Approx 10 min. later there was another identical attack where a man dressed in a ninja outfit held a sword to a womans neck and robbed her. She was not harmed.
Two weeks ago a firefighter friend was at the store purchasing a computer. Two men followed him home and rushed in the door just after the firefighter entered. They subdued him, duct taped his wife and daughter and told him to give them what they wanted or they would rape his family. He gave them what they wanted. Noone was harmed. Now he gives seminars on the importance of the gun carry laws. This illustrates the unfortunate fact that the police cannot protect you. At least as far as home invasion is concerned. We can be going about our day and never know who may be watching our every move just waiting for an opportunity. Awareness and training are our best allies. We must agressively seek our own health and welfare.

[kengar]

Nice response dude!

[haumana2000]

thanks, I am not the firefighter, the first paragraph was mine, the second firefighter account, I pulled off the web. But hey this last year there were how many nationwide stories of of other kids being kidnapped, from their bedrooms? what about the two 12 year girls kidnapped in broad daylight in california, what about the other two they found buried under that guys garage? Screw that, I have three beautiful daughters, and I make sure that I know in my heart, If god forbid something happened that I could prevent that I had the best possible chance of survival for my family.

Kali is not about hurt and death
It is about Life and love, the lives of you and your loved ones, and knowing that you could make it home to them everynight.

[kengar]

Yes, this past year there had been a large number of home invasions ranging from kidnap to murder. It doesn't matter where you live, who you are, or how many you precutions you take sometimes the ball bounces your way. All you can do is prepare, nothing more.

[brokenelbow]

I just hate when ninjas go bad.

[doubleouch]

Again the odds of a home invasion are slim to almost none. There are 1 million people in my metro area. We had one home invasion last year. Should I train everyday for that chance? Believe me I can stick a knife in someone if I have to. No problem. As I said before if my family's life is on the line I will do whatever is necessary. If you think martial arts training will help you in a life or death situation you may be mistaken. Luck, adrenaline, intestinal fortitude, and yes luck are your best bet. The odds of someone invading my home AND me subduing them with my knife expertise are slim to none. Anyone with a knife and 5 minutes training how to use it is an expert! What I did learn from my short stint in kali is that someone with even the most rudimentary experience with a knife is nearly impossible to stop emptyhanded. (heard it from Innosanto's mouth) Again, if I was worried about self defense I would put my money on a gun and hope I could get to it in time.

Again, If kali is good for you then go ahead and train it! Peace.

[haumana2000]

First and foremost as a Pinoy, I feel proud to perpetuate the proud warrior heritage of those who came before me. Many Filipinos unfortunately are not even aware of it, so instead train in contemporary Asian arts. My class is very intensive not only in the martial aspect but the historical and traditions as well this includes emphasis on traditional values, and family. (I run a large Pacific Island/Filipino group, so most bretheren in our group feel this way as well.

I think we as humans in this day and age are soo emotionally constipated, that we walk around really only excercising those activities that we deem socially acceptable. I find that not only does FMA satisfy me culturally, it satisfies me physically, spiritually, & provides me the ability not only to know what I am capable of doing, but the confidence not to abuse that responsibility. It allows me to access that primal side of my psyche that society supresses so that I understand myself fully. When I go home, and see my beautiful daughters that provides the emotional, loving reinforcement to make me a well rounded person. At the same time I DO train not only me but my daughters what do if someone were to enter our house. Maybe you live in utopia, but hey most victims do not believe it could ever happen to them. So I practice acessing the various tools throught the house and I teach my daughters and wife all of the various household items that they could use as makeshift weapons. From the plunger stick in the restroom, to the towelhanger, to the razor. To a simple highheel. And you could best beleive that I teacvh my older daughter who is 14 how to use a folding blade because one day she'll go off to college, and I wont lie to her and tell her that that karate chop bull shit is going to work against a 200 pound campus rapist. But I will tell her how to keep her folder handy when walking to her car at night along with awareness and everything else she knows. I want to prepare her not only for the best in life, but the worst should it happen. thats just my personal philosophy, but it's just one in millions.

Good luck to you, double ouch in all of your training endeavors.

[doubleouch]

Sounds good to me! Train on.

[Al~Qiyaama]

I, personally, see where you are coming from. However, in combat the aggressor or opponent is not thinking about your safety. In fact, many people in combat purposely attempt to maim their opponent, and if you are in a life or death situation. It would be uselful to possess such skill. There are evil people, and they need to be taught a lesson. I am not an aggressive person; Kali is an Art that allows you to adapt to the severity of your situation. My first option wouldnt be to maim someone but it is an option depending on the situation at hand. Kali is an ART that can also be used without weapons as well...

[RapidAssault16]

I read the first post of this thread and while I didn't read the last 3 pages of threads, I decided to add my two cents anyway.

It's easy to understand as to why the average person might get turned off by Kali. The way I see it, if you study Kali even for a short while and you realize that you do NOT want to use a blade on another person...then good for you! You obviously realize the lethality of the blade. But, please keep in mind that Kali was not designed to be a sport or a method of exercise. It wasn't designed to be used against that idiot at the bar who grabbed your wife's ass and tried to call you outside for a fistfight. It was, is, and always will (or should be) a system designed to take out individuals who are trying to kill or severely harm you, your loved ones, or your country. Kali was developed for use in extreme situations. An instance where the use of a bladed weapon to kill or maim another individual may be warranted may include a group of 5 men is trying to kill you, rape your wife, kidnap your child. Rare? Perhaps. Never gonna happen? Well, it has happened before, many times, in supposedly safe areas all over the world.

The point is...how many times do you need to be killed/your wife need to be raped/your child to be kidnapped for you to learn a lesson? ZERO. This is why we train with the blade so seriously.

Now, it may be true that a person with even the most basic knowledge of how to use a knife is deadly. However, that doesn't make them an expert. In today's world, most crimes are committed by groups of people, not just one person. The "schoolyard bully" scenario is not the reality of the street (i.e. it's a one-on-one brawl). The reality of the street includes multiple attackers, who are usually armed. This is where use of the blade comes in. If you have a gun, by all means use it when you need to and when you can. But, it pays to be versed in all forms of close-combat, armed and unarmed alike. Many FMAs view knife and empty hands as the same thing. However, I have been trained to view the blade and the firearm to be in the same category. Within their respective ranges, they can both kill, leave body cavities, and cause incredible amounts of damage. I was trained to view the blade as a gun...we don't draw it unless we intend to use it.

Have I ever had to use my blade to kill anyone? No...but I have had to draw it several times when I felt my life was being threatened. I won't go into specifics so I won't...however, I will say that every time I drew it, I felt no sadistic urge to kill the other person. I was confident in my abilities, knowing I had the tool I needed to protect myself and my significant other. Was I scared? Hell yeah! Was that fear going to stop me when a group of armed men tries to carjack me with my girlfriend and my mother inside? No way. But, I wouldn't have that confidence if I didn't have the proper training with the weapon. Simply owning the weapon isn't enough...you need thorough training with it to be fully prepared.

I would also like to add that 90 percent of the Kali that is taught in the West teaches nothing more than pattern-drills that resemble a game of patty cake. If you look at the Filipino old-timers who have had to use this art to save their life and the Kali guys who teach drills all day, you'll see that there is a big difference--the old-timers who have had to use the art to save their lives practice Kali in a very direct, no BS, straightforward way which really differs from the fluffy Kali that is taught in many parts of the West. Atienza Kali, Sayoc Kali, Floro Fighting Systems, and a handful of other up-and-coming FMA systems are incredibly realistic and useful for the real-world.

Those are my 2 cents. Keep on training!

God Bless,
Mike

[Escrima Jim]

I've just joined this forum but have been part of others and the same sort of question's always raise their heads. I study Escrima Concepts, we have a system the uses armed and unarmed methods. So if I had to cut someone then that's what needs to be done. I'm sure that he would try to do it to me, if he had the knife. Maybe as you have to cut him, he could of had a blade in his pocket and was too slow to react.

[Escrima Jim]

Only someone who trains with weapons will have a chance against an armed attacker. Too many people it seems have to much "art" and not enough "martial" in their Art. By all means, turn your Art into a sport for comps, but don't get out of training in reality combat. That is where it counts. Only 15% ish of Martial Arts methods will work, so why waste you time learning things that won't help you or don't work.

Stay safe and train hard.......

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

I read enough to get the gyst of this thread, but not every post so forgive me if there is repetition.
It seems a lot of us have an attitude that as soon as a serious fight (i.e. not a bar room scuffle) starts, that it is kill or be killed. I do believe that if someone is using verbal threats or trying to intimidate with words or posture/proximity, then it is ok to respond with physical force. A few people may disagree but I think most of us realize that sort of intimidation as an invitation to fight and a promise of violence, which is exactly what it is. That is still how our animal beings are hardwired. However, this doesn't rule out degrees of retaliation. A fight, or your perception of the encounter, can go through several escalations before you reach lethal force.
I believe that the ideal outcome of any fight is minimal injury to both combatants. If someone attacks me armed or not, my greatest goal would be to pin him to the ground and let him exhaust himself, then walk away leaving him sweaty and embarassed. If the fight needs to end quicker than that, then I can choke him or maybe knock him out. If the fight needs te end faster I can try to break a bone. If it escalates beyond all these things then I can draw my knife.
Now, I realize that due to factors of multiple attackers, skill level, weapons, what have you, that these decisions may be taken out of my hands. I realize that this escalation may occur completely in my head in the second that two men pull knives from their pockets. My point is, I feel morally obligated to go through that escalation and reach the highest degrees of violence only when it is forced on me. I train to the ultimate goal of ending conflict peacefully, because I feel that is the true spirit of my chosen arts of Judo and Jujitsu. I train martial arts so that the delivery of the fatal blow becomes more and more an option for me, and less and less a necessity.

[danjuandesiga]

Nice!

I really like this post, so I'm bumping it up again. Thanks, Mike

Daniel Arola

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DAMAG_Kali_Stickfighting

http://www.myspace.com/danielarola

I read the first post of this thread and while I didn't read the last 3 pages of threads, I decided to add my two cents anyway.

It's easy to understand as to why the average person might get turned off by Kali. The way I see it, if you study Kali even for a short while and you realize that you do NOT want to use a blade on another person...then good for you! You obviously realize the lethality of the blade. But, please keep in mind that Kali was not designed to be a sport or a method of exercise. It wasn't designed to be used against that idiot at the bar who grabbed your wife's ass and tried to call you outside for a fistfight. It was, is, and always will (or should be) a system designed to take out individuals who are trying to kill or severely harm you, your loved ones, or your country. Kali was developed for use in extreme situations. An instance where the use of a bladed weapon to kill or maim another individual may be warranted may include a group of 5 men is trying to kill you, rape your wife, kidnap your child. Rare? Perhaps. Never gonna happen? Well, it has happened before, many times, in supposedly safe areas all over the world.

The point is...how many times do you need to be killed/your wife need to be raped/your child to be kidnapped for you to learn a lesson? ZERO. This is why we train with the blade so seriously.

Now, it may be true that a person with even the most basic knowledge of how to use a knife is deadly. However, that doesn't make them an expert. In today's world, most crimes are committed by groups of people, not just one person. The "schoolyard bully" scenario is not the reality of the street (i.e. it's a one-on-one brawl). The reality of the street includes multiple attackers, who are usually armed. This is where use of the blade comes in. If you have a gun, by all means use it when you need to and when you can. But, it pays to be versed in all forms of close-combat, armed and unarmed alike. Many FMAs view knife and empty hands as the same thing. However, I have been trained to view the blade and the firearm to be in the same category. Within their respective ranges, they can both kill, leave body cavities, and cause incredible amounts of damage. I was trained to view the blade as a gun...we don't draw it unless we intend to use it.

Have I ever had to use my blade to kill anyone? No...but I have had to draw it several times when I felt my life was being threatened. I won't go into specifics so I won't...however, I will say that every time I drew it, I felt no sadistic urge to kill the other person. I was confident in my abilities, knowing I had the tool I needed to protect myself and my significant other. Was I scared? Hell yeah! Was that fear going to stop me when a group of armed men tries to carjack me with my girlfriend and my mother inside? No way. But, I wouldn't have that confidence if I didn't have the proper training with the weapon. Simply owning the weapon isn't enough...you need thorough training with it to be fully prepared.

I would also like to add that 90 percent of the Kali that is taught in the West teaches nothing more than pattern-drills that resemble a game of patty cake. If you look at the Filipino old-timers who have had to use this art to save their life and the Kali guys who teach drills all day, you'll see that there is a big difference--the old-timers who have had to use the art to save their lives practice Kali in a very direct, no BS, straightforward way which really differs from the fluffy Kali that is taught in many parts of the West. Atienza Kali, Sayoc Kali, Floro Fighting Systems, and a handful of other up-and-coming FMA systems are incredibly realistic and useful for the real-world.

Those are my 2 cents. Keep on training!

God Bless,
Mike

[RapidAssault16]

Hey Daniel, I'm glad you like my post. I've seen some of your clips on Youtube.com and I'm quite impressed. It's good to see that I'm not the only FMAer who likes to train the FMAs in a realistic fashion (it seems that way around NJ sometimes lol).

God Bless,
Mike Pana

Atienza Kali, Inosanto Kali, Lightning Scientific Arnis, and Modern Arnis Mano-Mano