Weapon length advantages

[741]

I just saw a class where the instructor, using a training knife, sparred with a student, using a kali stick, both wearing protection, of course. From what it looked like, the instructor wielding the knife had a very little chance against the student with a stick. The instructor almost couldn't get in at all. He then pointed out the advantage that the person with the longer weapon had, even though it's not bladed.

Now this is what I'm wondering. Does this mean that with two guys of equal skill, one with a staff, and one with a sword, that the guy with the staff will have the same advantage on the sword as the kali stick did on the knife?

I'm also curious about one other thing. Two guys of equal skill duelling, one with a normal, long sword, and the other with two shorter swords(kali stick length). Which guy would have an advantage and why?

[haumana2000]

Hey 741, good question, I fought an NHB stick fight at a public event about 5 months ago, I use a 27' in. Stick he used a thick, 31 inch. Yantok. He was 6"2, and 205, compared to my 5"7 and 165. We fought in a ring, of course which doesnt leave a lot of room to run, so I let him swing, and knew that once I got inside the power arc, that the lever of the end of his stick would be too heavy, for his wrist to hit me hard close. I crashed, and used grappling elbows, punches, headbutts, and a boatload of witiks to his left ribs. He suffered broken ribs BTW. Not a pat on the back here, but want to illustrate that its the range that counts, each weapon has a range where it will be more ffective than another, and it is about range recognition, what techniques fit which distance, and good god, when the stick is that damn big smother it, so he cant knwock you into oblivion. now, with a knife of course the shorter the tool, the tighter the movments HAVE TO BE a mistake resulting in a broken hand witha stick, will cost your life with a blade.

Good luck.

[Reactor]

Re: Weapon length advantages

Originally posted by 741
Now this is what I'm wondering. Does this mean that with two guys of equal skill, one with a staff, and one with a sword, that the guy with the staff will have the same advantage on the sword as the kali stick did on the knife?

This is a tough one, since your query posits "guys of equal skill level."

Assuming the match starts from a range that neither can touch the other, the outcome will most likely be a draw.

Both practitioners will know how to parlay the strengths of their weapons against the weaknesses of the other and conversely will not fight in ranges where they are weak.

The staff has a greater range and can pack a greater wallop, but inside, it is no longer an effective weapon, and inside is where the sword shines.

So outside the staff wins, inside the sword.

I'm also curious about one other thing. Two guys of equal skill duelling, one with a normal, long sword, and the other with two shorter swords(kali stick length). Which guy would have an advantage and why?

I would say the two swords for the simple reason that within the activity zone of the engagement, the two-swords present a greater force multiplier. This assumes again players of equal skill level in their respective weapons.

Just opinion though.

[darrianation]

If the staff and sword were the same length I would give to the guy with the sword.

Those things are sharp man!

[moromoro]

I'm also curious about one other thing. Two guys of equal skill duelling, one with a normal, long sword, and the other with two shorter swords(kali stick length). Which guy would have an advantage and why?

many staff arts also exploit this advantage.... reach and levarage power is the advantage of the staff

(it is interesting to note that in japan archealogical studies have shown that more people died in battle from crushing blows of the staff then by the sword).....

also the staff (hardwood) does have the advantage over the sword in both blocking and power of blows....i.e the katana is not design to be able to take stikes from the side...


BACK TO YOUR QUESTION IF ONE GUY HAS A KATANA (NORMAL SWORD??) AND THE OTHER TWO shorter swords (kali stick lenght....) the guy with the katana would have the advantage if he was skilled and could exploit the weakness of the opponent... mai or correct distance would prevail......

IF YOU HAVE A LONGER WEAPON 1 OF THE SATRATEGIES IS TO KEEP YOUR OPPONENT AT THE CORRECT DISTANCE......


in FMA real fighting not sparring or competition... your height and reach will not matter... if you both have the same size stick.... because one of the major taget is the hands you will both have the same reach advantage over each other


THANKS

HOPE THIS HELPS

terry

[krys]

Does this mean that with two guys of equal skill, one with a staff, and one with a sword, that the guy with the staff will have the same advantage on the sword as the kali stick did on the knife?

The staff has a longuer range than the sword, this means that your opponent has a chance to hit first before you can close the distance.
It is also a very tricky weapon, depending on the grip it is possible to change the range of attack.
I would give the advantage to the staff at the same level of skills.....

[ryanhall]

I give a huge edge to the guy with the bladed weapon if he has any balls at all. If you're willing to take a shot, you can close and cut to your heart's content. The cover and rush method could work here, especially if stick boy had his back to a wall. The only exception would be baseball bat (or something else with appreciable weight that can still be swung quickly) v blade. A shot with an escrima stick won't stop someone who's intent on killing you, but a baseball bat can knock you down or kill you in one shot due to the weight distribution. In reality, the blade is far superior, especially because things start at close range (and it can be concealed very well).

[haumana2000]

I don't know how hard it would be, but I will see if I can find someone to translate the big stick big guy vs lil stick lil guy (me) fight into an mpeg or similar, it is on vhs now so i dont know what that entails. But Ryanhall, I completely agree with you as far as the take a shot to give a slash, thrust methodology. If it was a knife, it would be easier for a bat to deal with.

[moromoro]

hi guys

i think his question was this

Two guys of equal skill duelling, one with a normal, long sword, and the other with two shorter swords(kali stick length). Which guy would have an advantage and why?

[krys]

Two guys of equal skill duelling, one with a normal, long sword, and the other with two shorter swords(kali stick length). Which guy would have an advantage and why?

I never tried it, a japanese Sai expert could give interesting answers to this question,
but as I said with the staff I think the long sword player would have an advantage because he could strike first while the two short sword player could not.... the long sword user will surely try to keep the distance to exploit this advantage...... besides there is the power factor of the blows delivered with the long sword....



Cacoi Canete once told me that he defeated a japanese kendo expert with two escrima sticks in a matter of seconds..... but that's the skill factor.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

[moromoro]

Cacoi Canete once told me that he defeated a japanese kendo expert with two escrima sticks in a matter of seconds..... but that's the skill factor.

i dont know about this, i think it could be imagination factor...

with all due respect he has been know to fabricate so many of his supposed 100 'death matches" to such extent that most of the people he said he had fought against dont even exist.....


terry

[krys]

Hello terry,
I've nothing personal against Cacoi but lots of people, well masters also, don't appreciate him....

Alam mo ba nangyari sa G.M. contest sa Maynila?
Totoo nagbayad siya ang mga hukom doon?

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

[moromoro]

hi Chris.. the one iam familiar with was the first national arnis tornament in cebu 1979 a few months before the manilla tournament

paying judges is right.. the most disgracesfull match he had was in the final of the first national arnis championship GM division in cebu. he fought 1 match in the tournament while everyone else had to win 3 times to get into the finals.. the most victorious GM of the tournament was GM Carlos Navarro.. tatay carlos actually got cacoy out of the ring and made him fall onto the crowd we have a photo of this... but the ref didnt see this is when tatay relised he couldnt win...

this was the disgracefull acts that doce pares and naraphil where doing in such tournaments....

aslo not that GM carlos navarro was the only GM in the tournament not to wear any hand protectors..... his ability was such that he didnt need it...


also after that fight the crowd went made when cacoys hand was raised as the winner.. he had a red face accepting the victory..

also doce pares video taped the match. but where is the tape??
they have hidden it to proctect themselves.....

Terry

[thekuntawman]

taking a shot from a stick to give a cut with the knife.

this is like many people who believe he can "take a shot" from a boxer, or a kick from a tae kwon do fighter.

against average or below average fighters this is a good possibility. but keep in mind that a hit or kick from a good fighter is not that easy to take, and if anyone thinks he can do it, i challenge you to ask a tae kwon do fighter, boxer or eskrima fighter to give you what ever he got, and then try to jump in there.

it doesnt work that easy. in nhb, they are taking hits that are not landing clean, many times from fighters who are not good punchers. in stickfighting, the fighters are wearing helmets. in a boxing match, the fighters are wearing gloves. in a tae kwon do match, the target is not inner thigh, groin or an unprotected head. "taking a shot" is not a good strategy, because it works best in theory only, or against mediocre fighters. a better strategy to jump in is to learn to evade the opponents attack, and develop the timing to keep the hits from landing with good power. whether your opponent is sending you a kick, punch, stick or knife.

its very laughable when people passed off a rattan stick as just a small skinny stick you can take. i guarantee there is no man alive who is not drugged up who can take a hit from a decent eskrimador's rattan.

[krys]

Hi Terry,


I think you are right. I stayed two months at DP and he was very boastfull, said he could take anybody, talking about how fast he beat A. Bacon and other peoples, deathmatches.....
I found this a little disgracefull for a GM....


My own grandmaster has bullet wounds and cuts on his body, he fought for real and survived but never boasted about his victories, and he speaks with respect of other GMs....

Thanks,
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.