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**Juramentado** · 07-03-2003, 01:43 AM

Bahi, for the following reasons:

a) more plentiful than kamagong Kamagong is already an endangered species in the Philippines and so FMA practitioners can do their share by not encouraging the harvesting of this hardwood. There are however legit sources of this wood but they are becoming more scarce. There's currently a logging ban on hardwoods in the country (AFAIK, it's nation wide and covers kamagong)

b)Bahi does not fail abruptly The problem with kamagong is that it's quite brittle. Once it cracks, it will split all the way. Bahi on the other hand has fiberous grain and retains its natural sap so its less brittle than kamagong. You can abuse a bahi stick and not worry about it failing suddenly on you.

c) Bahi is not affected by cold or dry weather This is a problem if you train in Europe and the US with kamagong sticks. I've heard of stories of kamagong sticks splitting for no apparent reason, probably due to the dry and / or cold weather.

Kamagong's mystique is due to its traditional use as a dueling stick. But weight / strength wise, bahi is a very suitable substitute for kamagong, IMHO

If you want a heavy weapon to train with, you can use a metal pipe and have the same weight as a kamagong stick. But be careful with training with heavy sticks, kamagong or otherwise. You can easily injure your elbow and forearm tendons with too much heavy stick training. That already happened to me

**99luftbalut** · 07-03-2003, 02:24 AM

Maybe some treatment like an oil would help in the preservation of kamagong in a dry environment? Boiled linseed oil, etc?

**Juramentado** · 07-03-2003, 03:02 AM

You could try. But kamagong is a very dense wood and I'm not sure how far into the stick linseed oil will be able to permeate.

**krys** · 07-03-2003, 09:38 AM

which one do the philipine arnis masters prefer and why?

I don't know for all the masters, but my master and grandmaster gave me two bahi Yantoks I should use in case of serious business. They were treated with some oils and let to dry in the sun for a very long time. Therefore it is possible to put some oils on Bahi to preserve it and make it more resistant.

In the duels (I heard of) fought by Cinco Teros, bahi yantoks (and blades) were used.
My manong once said to me that the kamagong stick can be used against the Bolo (machette) with success but the Bahi Yantok may defeat it........

Christian.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

**Snarlin Stef** · 07-03-2003, 10:10 AM

Thank you all for the replies... i truly appreciate you helping a newb like me

Bahi is rare as well no?
I see on some sites that Bahi is more epensive than Kamagong taking note of its rarity. Marketing ploy... probably. But im kinda new to this.

Bruce Lee used Kamagong Arnis sticks in Enter the Dragon right b4 he picks up the chuks.

As far as reasoning for which I should use, perhaps I should have simply asked: which makes the superior stick given 2 fighters with equal skills?

**XxSweetFacadexX** · 07-03-2003, 12:11 PM

i dunno if this is any help, but this is my understanding of the different woods for the sticks...

rattan is light and inexpensive.

kamagong is a bit heavier and a beautiful wood, but i wouldn't buy it for the fact that it's endangered.

i prefer to train with bahi because it's the heaviest and if made properly, it is a very durable stick. because of it's weight, speed becomes faster if you later defend yourself with a much lighter stick. i train with bahi, but i'll defend myself with rattan.

**Snarlin Stef** · 07-03-2003, 12:33 PM

wow... that amazes me that the philipine gov. allows endangered wood to be chopped and used for sticks. Its a shame theat people jsut dont grow Kamagong in ther parts of the world. Surely there are other parts of the world suitable for Kumagong.

I was also under the impression that Kumagong was heavier than Bahi

seems that morality is going to play a significant role in my stick purchasing. who woulda thought

**XxSweetFacadexX** · 07-03-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Snarlin Stef
As far as reasoning for which I should use, perhaps I should have simply asked: which makes the superior stick given 2 fighters with equal skills?

oh.. i forgot to answer that part...

if you can manage the bahi just as fast as the rattan, then i would suggest the bahi... it's more painful for your opponent and less likely to break or whatever... not that the rattan should break...

**Veynn** · 07-03-2003, 04:18 PM

Get Bahi sticks.

**Juramentado** · 07-03-2003, 10:01 PM

well, even if kamagong and other hardwoods are illegal to cut and harvest, this is a country notorious for corruption so expect some form to illegal logging to exist. Also, remote area with kamagong are difficult to monitor.

But by not buying kamagong or at least buying sticks made only from legitimately sourced limber, one market for these trees is reduced even further.

regarding rattan or bahi in skilled hands, I would say that it rattan has it's uses in self defense. It's lighter and can get to the target faster. If a sticks contacts the opponent's temple at 150 mph, it doesn't really matter to him if he got hit with rattan or bahi. The only wood that will mean anything to him at that point is the kind to be used for his coffin.

**K Williams** · 07-05-2003, 06:01 AM

You can also consider Yakal...

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http://www.kriscutlery.com/Kris/philippine/Philippine.html

**Largo_Mano** · 08-19-2003, 11:42 PM

I know I'm a bit late on this subject. Sledge hammer handles or axe handles are good cheap substitues for heavy stick training. YOu can go to your local hardware store (homebase) and have them cut the fat end of the stick off.

**sercuerdas** · 08-21-2003, 05:41 PM

the problem is finding good bahi much of what i have see has large areas of soft spots allover it.

**eXcessiveForce** · 08-22-2003, 01:02 AM

Any opinions on Cocobolo sticks?

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