How many of you carry weapons?

[Apoth]

I was just curious has to how many of you actually carry weapons. I know I'm posting this in the Filipino MA forum so I'm going to get a biased answer, but I wanted to know everyone's opinions on this.

I've trained in Pambuan Arnis for about the last year, but I've never carried a blade and I don't plan to. The only weapon I actually carry is a yawarra attached to my key chain and that's my weapon of last resort.

Why no blade, you ask? Because I personally feel that carrying a blade, I would be tempted to use it. If a guy pulls a knife on me, there's a good chance he's just trying to intimidate and I should be able to see it coming. Hopefully I'll be able to talk the person down and if not, a quick eye whip from my keys should give me enough time to run. If he's too close and we're in the heat of combat and he pulls it and sticks me, it's probably going to happen to fast for me to draw a weapon anyway.

Alternately, if he pulls a knife, and I pull one, my opponent now realizes his life is in danger and whereas, before, he may not have planned on using that knife, he's now pretty sure that he has to. Its the same reason why cops tell many convenience store owners to not carry guns. If a guy comes into rob you, 99% of the time, he'll take the money and leave. But the moment he sees the weapon it becomes a fight for his life and he's alot more inclined to use that weapon.

There's also a very large concern about going to jail. I'm a law student and a martial artist so when I was taught how to do legal research and I went and investigated my local assault laws. In my state, you can only use as much force as is necessary to end the situation, nothing more, and brandishing a weapon is enough to constitute assault.. I feel that if I have a knife and a guy comes at me, I may be tempted to pull it and rather than my attacker assaulting me, it now becomes me committing aggravated assault and looking at a felony arrest.

Anyway, just looking for a nice friendly debate. I'm not trying to push my views on anyway, I was just curious.

[arsen]

How is it considered aggravated assault if you're attacked? Wouldn't that be considered self defense? Furthermore do you live in an area where there is a possibility of being attacked?

[adacas]

The law makes a thin line between self-defense and assault. The law usually states that you can only defend yourself to the point of the amount of force the attacker is using against you and you are able to control the situation. Now if you take another step further you are asking for trouble. I took some time to research this as well a while ago because I do carry a knife around almost everywhere I go. I always have that thought in the back of my mind, "how much is enough when defending yourself." I would only use my knife in the most extreme of needs like say if I could not run and was being attacked by another knife user or my home was being invaded or if I was ganged up on or if a 6'5" 300lbs linebacker decided he wanted me dead. I'm only 5'11" and 180 lbs and would not stand a chance against somebody that big and he could easily kill me even by accident. I would not want to hurt anybody but I remember the saying "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

[grimel]

Re: How many of you carry weapons?

Originally posted by Apoth

If a guy pulls a knife on me, there's a good chance he's just trying to intimidate

Alternately, if he pulls a knife, and I pull one, my opponent now realizes his life is in danger and whereas, before, he may not have planned on using that knife, he's now pretty sure that he has to. Its the same reason why cops tell many convenience store owners to not carry guns.

Glad you are a mind reader. I never was able to pass mindreading 101. There is also a good chance he will us it. Try disarms and take downs against a noob in your class. Give him a marker. Get back to me on just how great an indea it is to disarm even an untrained person w/ a knife.

The reason cops tell stop and rob owners to not use a gun is liability. If they (cops) recommend a gun and things turn out bad, who do you think will get sued? "They told me too or I'd have never done it!"

[Apoth]

Re: Re: How many of you carry weapons?

Originally posted by grimel


Glad you are a mind reader. I never was able to pass mindreading 101. There is also a good chance he will us it. Try disarms and take downs against a noob in your class. Give him a marker. Get back to me on just how great an indea it is to disarm even an untrained person w/ a knife.

The reason cops tell stop and rob owners to not use a gun is liability. If they (cops) recommend a gun and things turn out bad, who do you think will get sued? "They told me too or I'd have never done it!"

Grim,

No need to be rude about it. I never said I would like to try to disarm anyone, and God knows if someone pulls a knife I'm not fighting if there's any chance I can talk my way out of it. I've knife trained, I know the risks of it and that's exactly why I don't want to carry a blade.

And its not mind reading, its simple human reaction. Think about what any normal person would do when faced with that situation and see if you can still say that I'm off-base. Furthermore, go watch the news some time and you tell me how it turns out when a shop owner pulls a weapon on an armed robber. 9 times out of 10 it ends up with a shoot-out and one of the people either seriously injured or dead. Most people who rob you aren't looking to murder you, they're looking to get your wallet. You pull a weapon, it becomes a fight for their life. If you truly believe otherwise, then I believe there's a large chance that your life is either going to be a very short one or a very long one stuck in prison. This is exactly my whole point for not carrying a blade. You have to tread a very thin line between defending yourself and committing murder.

Cops, where I'm from, tell people to arm themselves all the time. One of my felllow law students had his house broken into just the other day and the police suggested they go buy a weapon. Your statement presupposes that cops aren't concerned with human life, but instead with their own wallets and I believe that's a jaded and inaccurate view of reality and human nature.

[adacas]

I know that in most cases someone who wants to rob you and is carrying a weapon will not attack you with that weapon. The only problem I have is how do you know if he will attack you or not. I am thinking about the worst case scenario at this time because I am afraid for my life. Adrenaline is pumping and survival is firmly in my mind. I may not get out of it alive if I fight but then again I may not get out alive if I don't. Its a choice each person must make and neither one is the right one.

[Apoth]

Adacus,

And I guess that's the real crux of the problem. Do you want to chance it? It's all a gamble in the end. I would just hate for my life to be cut short because I pushed a guy who was not, otherwise, going to hurt me.

[grimel]

Re: Re: Re: How many of you carry weapons?

Originally posted by Apoth

Furthermore, go watch the news some time and you tell me how it turns out when a shop owner pulls a weapon on an armed robber. 9 times out of 10 it ends up with a shoot-out and one of the people either seriously injured or dead. Most people who rob you aren't looking to murder you, they're looking to get your wallet. You pull a weapon, it becomes a fight for their life. If you truly believe otherwise, then I believe there's a large chance that your life is either going to be a very short one or a very long one stuck in prison. This is exactly my whole point for not carrying a blade. You have to tread a very thin line between defending yourself and committing murder.

Oh, yes, the news as a reliable source. How about a real source? Say FBI statistics. Something semi-reliable.

Somehow you know the guy who's mugging you isn't going to stab your ass. If that isn't mind reading what is it?

Well, it can't be a very short life. And it won't be long time in prison (which does beat staring at a casket lid from the inside). You GUESS wrong and you're dead.

So, you are a law student and you STILL think some jackass committing armed robbery and you with your knife killing him would get you in jail. So, where ever it is you live has a law that says someone committing an armed felony against you hasn't met the legal requirements for a response with lethal force? Do you live in Europe or Canada? This supposed thin line isn't very complicated, proximity, means, and jepardy. He's close enough to commit a mugging, he's got a knife, he's mugging you if he hasn't threatened you (pulling the knife qualifies) why are you thinking about giving up your wallet? He's met the legal requirements. If you live in one of over 30 states and you're legal with a CCW screw the knife and SHOOT the thug.

[arsen]

So does anyone actually carry weapons on their person? Sometimes I sport a set of brass knuckles in my back pocket, but this was only recently that I started doing this. I go to Rutgers and if anyone has been reading the papers or kept an eye on the news might have heard about the fratt kids who were hospitalized after being attacked by some kids with baseball bats. The details have been kept hush hush, and I suppose there was a reason for the attack, it wasn't a random thing. However its a little nerve wracking to think about, the knuckles add a little peace of mind.

[Apoth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: How many of you carry weapons?

Grim, if you can't be civil, I'm not going to discuss this with you. I started this thread to have a discussion about this, not to argue with a guy who wants to try to insult me every chance he gets.

With that being said...

Originally posted by grimel


Oh, yes, the news as a reliable source. How about a real source? Say FBI statistics. Something semi-reliable.

The news, while biased and negative, generally reports facts. To say otherwise is ridiculous

Somehow you know the guy who's mugging you isn't going to stab your ass. If that isn't mind reading what is it?

See above. It's a general assertion culled from my experiences in the world.

You GUESS wrong and you're dead.

By the same token, any time you draw a weapon you're guessing that you can:

a.) Knife fight better than your opponent
b.) Not have the weapon taken away from you
c.) Not accidently stab yourself.

My whole point, and what you seemed to have missed me saying, is that I don't carry a blade on me (I do carry a yawara) because I can't guarantee that I'll knife fight better, that I won't have the weapon taken away, or that I won't accidentally stab myself. A yawarra is a weapon that's not easily recognized by the layperson as such, can be immobilize WITHOUT killing, and is very hard to hurt yourself with.

So, where ever it is you live has a law that says someone committing an armed felony against you hasn't met the legal requirements for a response with lethal force?

You're making incorrect inferences from what I said, rather than reading my words as I stated them. Here's a brief legal lesson from an admittedly superficial, but accurate bout of legal research.

I live in Nashville. The law hear states aggravated assault as follows.

(a) A person commits aggravated assault who:

(1) Intentionally or knowingly commits an assault as defined in § 39-13-101 and:


(A) Causes serious bodily injury to another; or

(B) Uses or displays a deadly weapon;

While the words give us some indication of the law, it doesn't give it all to us.

The law for self defense here is as follows

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The person must have a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury must be real, or honestly believed to be real at the time, and must be founded upon reasonable grounds. There is no duty to retreat before a person threatens or uses force.


The court in State v. Woods, further stated this as a person "must show that he acted upon a well-founded apprehension of great bodily injury and that the actions he took were necessary." The Court has also stated in State v. Huntman that "subjective impressions about the level of danger, even those of the defendant, are far less important than the facts and circumstances surrounding the shooting." This is where you really run into trouble. This is not an entirely subjective test so even if you feel justified, the court may very well find you weren't. This isn't to imply that when you are being mugged at knife point you wouldn't be justified in lethal force. The trick becomes that you can only use the force necessary to defend yourself. When you qualify as a "trained combatant" in many jurisdictions, your options for necessary force are a LOT less. Furthermore, if your opponent, at ANY point, attempts to abandon their unlawful act, you can't continue to attack or you're committing assault and/or murder. That means if you're on top of a guy and he says anything that indicates he wants to stop, you have a legal duty to discontinue the attack. Same thing goes if the guy is knocked unconscious at any point. That's the thin line I speak of, not whether or not you believe you might be justified. It's too easy to get lost in the moment and just continue.

[adacas]

I wish I could carry brass knucks but they are illegal here. Also an extendable baton would be cool but again illegal. I carry my folder with the tensioner screw tightened for when the police want to check if it follows the law. Folders can be as big as we want and can be concealed. Automatics can be no longer than 3 inches or 2.5 inches something like that and fixed blade knives must be out in the open where everyone can see. I am a bit limited as to what I can carry but my folder is fine.

[Apoth]

As I've alluded to a couple of times, I carry a yawara. You can see one below: http://www.centuryfitness.com/webapp...egory_rn=13661

An actual yawarra is about a foot long, but this one can be used just the same. There are a couple of nice things about it.

1.) Its not as easily recognized as a weapon as one might think (even with the point) Its hard to see the point when you're holding it and most people only see the keys, not the yawara. Further, even if someone does see the point, many times they still have no idea what it is.

2.) If it gets taken away, most people aren't really sure of how to use it. Its likely to get discarded as just being someone's keys rather than a weapon.

3.) It can be used as very damaging to not damaging at all. A quick strike with the point will hurt like hell but probably not severely injure, while a quick eye whip with the key end (which coincidentally is the more dangerous end) is likely to maim and permanently disable an attacker.

[Airyu]

Hello,

Yes, I carry several different weapons, depending on the environment I am heading into. Level of force responses include - O.C., Impact weapons, Surefire light, Blade, or firearm. I also occasionally carry a version of the Yawara, which can be adapted to some of the blade or empty hand movements we practice.

Great work on the legal issues.

Gumagalang
Steve Lefebvre - Kayan dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali

https://www.Bujinkandojo.net

[adacas]

I have seen one of those before. A friend of mine bought a yawarra off of some self defence catalog. I actually used to carry a 6 inch wooden version to school since I couldn't carry a knife. It was fine for defense but I feel my knife gives me more distance from my attacker. I still had to get in close and I didn't have too much training with it. It still is a good weapon to carry and almost everybody is completely oblivious of it which is good.

[doubleouch]

Apoth,
I think it's great that you give some thought to whether to cary or not. I think some people believe that just because they train FMA they must carry all the time. The worst are the FMA people I know who become so paranoid they carry 5 or 6 knives on them at all times! I carry when I have to catch the bus early in the morning. Only because I was nearly assaulted once. Other than that I usually don't. The places I go and the people I hang with usually don't warrant that I carry.