silat:check list and acid test

[Tant01]

Monkey god

salam....tant01

u sure know your knife.....basicly all the one that u mention is kerambit...by the way...do you know what hanuman means?...
about the the assasin tool...and the ladies weapon...dont take to heart...wing chun also was created by a women....why i say its an assassin's weapon...look at the sheath..the cover...like a hook...the women use it to hold their hair...in a bun.....the langkah of attack is hidden in the dance move for the ladies....if u have long hair u can try it...thats why men dont put kerambit at the side like sword or keris..it is hidden in the fold of the sach or clothes...its a secret weapon...very secret...
salam....

Good Morning Husnira. The depth of your knowledge is a treasure to me. Thank you for this discourse in silat and about the karambit.

Hanuman is the monkey deity. Known for his courage, service and powers to become any size. Myth and legends place him in Lanka as a spy and hero that defeated demons and tricked the demon king...

[husnira]

salam....

see...i know tant01 knows his silat....hanuman is the monkey deity..just like in the sutras...and just like shaolin kungfu monkey style,the silat tht has the hanuman influence will have the traits of a monkey...such as the hangging hand or arm movements..and the monkey kick, the toes are folded in like punching...not practical?...take one on the rib and i bet my sticking kerambit u will agree with them...
by the way...the other name tht replace hanuman..is chemandi...or any other local dialect that referring to monkey...why?..because in islam...there is no deity and no other holly being other than the one god....
salam....

[husnira]

salam....
ok back to the acid test and check list...
NATURAL WEAPONS
any good master will tell u this...the fastest attack is the hand attack...the most powerful is the kick....why?...hands is fast because it is less dense with muscle..so its lighter....and the legs...unless u are walking with your arm it should be heavier than the arms...ok...
that would be the novice training session talk...if you are now beginning to learn and mastering your silat you should be told about the 7 weapons:
-hand-2
-elbow-2
-legs-2
-head-1
and also the 9 weapons:
-plus the knee-2
how to use it is up to the silat that u learn and it should have enough reasons to undermined or focus any of the weapons...
that is the instructors manual of weapon but to the master and gurus...it is different.
every limb...every moving joints on your body can be use as a weapon..but the most dangerous weapon of all is the... mind..
silat is feared not because the agility..it belongs to kungfu and capoiera..not the hardest hitting..thats muay thai and boxing...deadly blade?..try krabi krabung or kendo...
its the tricks and deception...but again..i must remind..honour must not be neglected..no cheap shot...no disrespecting the opponent..its inteligent and wit...i have never seen any grapple that silat cannot disengage...hope fully my words are not seen as disrespect....
to be continued...salam

[husnira]

salam...
remember the thing that i said about the sport shoe thing?......why the shoe is not suitable in silat?...because u cannot use your toes and feet...how to use them in a combat situation..?...in silat...u can even use your toes to pin a guy down on his knees...try this with your partner...when your partner kneel...from behind..use your big toes and hook it on the folding of the trousers next to the kneeling knee...just the big toe and put your foot down firmly on the ground...if you do it correctly...your partner will not able to stand up...but when u do this,u will also can feel something else...everytime your partner struggle to stand up..u can feel something thru your toes that is in contact with your partner....u can feel his body movement...every single twitch....now..ask your friend to shift his body left to right and back to front...feel it...ask him to move his hand..left and right...feel it thru your legs...then ask your friend to attack from that position...wait for it...u almost can feel not just his moves...even his feelings...his attention...his mind...and strike when is stricken...that is power...the mind...to choose to strike or to be striken....that is silat...
but remember the key for this advantage on your opponent...the toe...just the toe..and that is what i mean by the natural weapon in silat...every limb and every moving joint...
salam...

[kitetsu]

Don't forget that when escaping an opponent's grapple, you must take quick note of the gravity and use every inch of your body to put the opponent's gravity to your advantage.

For example, my brother taught me a neat trick that when someone grabs you by the wrist, you pull your hand back so that the palm faces your body, pull your fingers down so they face your body as well (but don't clench your fist), pull your arm slightly towards the body and spin your grabbed arm counter-clockwise while your hand does the same. Don't do this with haste, however. I tried it before and my brother almost snapped my wrist. Once the grip is loose, counter the opponent however you see fit. I was somewhat certain that only a contortionist would still be able to hold on to the wrist after that maneuver was done.

[husnira]

salam...

to all my friends out there...especially those who are keen in silat to learn the knife and kerambit....i would like to introduce u to a man that is well known for his effort in introducing the art of the secret weapon kerambit to the western world...mr.JAK OTHMAN...he is the one person that i really look up to in term of spreading the popularity of kerambit and knife usage in silat....in malaysia he runs the club by the name HARIMAU BERANTAI...or the chained tiger organization... i will try to find out more about mr JAK OTHMAN because it has been along time since i heard of him...what i know is he is one of the pioneers that took malaysian silat to the western world...and he is well known here in malaysia as a skillful kerambit master...hopefully to all my friend out there...like tant01....you have better insight on kerambit and knife play in silat...my greatest concern is that the art of the knife in kerambit and knife has been influenced by other form of martial arts and this would tarnish the purity of the art...please do realise that there are people out there that make martial arts as a form of income...either by dojo or books...in most cases...at the end of the day...the bills are not going to pay itself..and just to make things swing their way...the purity of the arts is not a priority....
hopefully..this thread can shed some light and be a watch dog to all silat masters out there so that they think twice before making their own opinion on silat..
salam.....

[Tant01]

I see...

salam...

to all my friends out there...especially those who are keen in silat to learn the knife and kerambit....i would like to introduce u to a man that is well known for his effort in introducing the art of the secret weapon kerambit to the western world...mr.JAK OTHMAN.....

...hopefully to all my friend out there...like tant01....you have better insight on kerambit and knife play in silat...my greatest concern is that the art of the knife in kerambit and knife has been influenced by other form of martial arts and this would tarnish the purity of the art...

please do realise that there are people out there that make martial arts as a form of income...either by dojo or books...in most cases...at the end of the day...the bills are not going to pay itself..and just to make things swing their way...the purity of the arts is not a priority....
hopefully..this thread can shed some light and be a watch dog to all silat masters out there so that they think twice before making their own opinion on silat..
salam.....

Greetings again Husnira.

I think I see where you are going with the thread now... The spiritual core of silat should not be neglected to be sure. You are right about the art becoming a commercial thing to be sold and taught as a function of defense only.

I do not mind if the spiritual aspects of silat remain secret or unknown in the west as most here are christian with a form of trinity for a god.

You will find many paradoxes in the ten thousand or so sects of christianity. With one breath they will praise the prince of peace (the son of god) and the next breath vow to kill terrorists...to the ends of the earth...

Feel free to share your discipline as you see fit but I fear few Americans share the ethical and moral values of the pendakars.

Almost all Silat styles practice both "hard" and "soft" techniques within their respective curriculums. In Silat, the mind, body and spirit are seen as being in a state of togetherness, thus the training is directed towards the cultivation of the "person" as a "whole" and not just towards perfecting his or her fighting ability.

Silat employs natural body movements and develops balance and economy of movement in each individual. The richness in the wide variety of silat styles offers people the chance to practice silat. It can be practiced purely for sport, fitness and the aesthetic beauty of the art. Silat can be considered as one of the world's few remaining complete traditional martial arts systems. Learning silat offers an opportunity to improve oneself physically, mentally, morally and spiritually.

Silat is not only considered as martial art but a medium of discipline construction among the followers. Construction of personal values is focused on every individual to encourage brilliant and creative leader in all aspects concerning the community. Soul element in silat is based on teaching of Islam, which reveals the truth and not for victory. Every silat practice focus on Islamic rules for the welfare of individual characters.



Bunga Silat, Jak Othman, Sulaiman Putera publisher, 1978


Thanks very kindly... I'll need to find his book now.

[husnira]

salam...

apa khabar semua.....how are you all doing....i hope ech and every one of you are having the time of your life learning silat...as i introduced to you all of master JAK OTHMAN,who to me are one of malaysian pesilat that really grasp the idea of making silat a popular and practical martial art to the western world...but i do hope more people like master JAK OTHMAN...will come foward and introduce more about silat to the world beyond nusantara..
aybe most of u know what is kerambit now...but when mentioning master JAK OTHMAN,one more weapon comes to my mind....a speacial one...in act it was the weapon that i first time saw master JAK OTHMAN played...the STINGRAY WHIP..or ekor pari..the tail of the stingray...this is also one of the exotic weapon u can see in the silat relm..the ekor pari is no childs play...i also had the chance to use it and it was very strange...and u can almost feel the sting in the whip...it is not like leather whip or even rattan..getting hit by the stingray whip feels alot like someone squirt gasoline on your skin...and light it!...
the play as master JAK explain is more like slashing and swing...the skin of the whip is hard and sandy...like broken glass..
hopefully more pesilat out there will discover for themselves a silat holds more secret that you can think of...but i'm still a strong believer that weapons does not supposed to be lethal and it is a compliment to the skill and knowledge of the person...thats why you are taught to learn hand combat before learning weaponary...the sharpest tool is not the steel but the mind...
salam to all...

[husnira]

salam...
i know in this modern world...what i'm about to discuss here would be something more of a hoax and unexceptable...but bare with me...because this seems to be the color that had decorated silat in which all pesilat is drawn to...and never the least had been the tools of the trade of those people who make silat and martial art their source of income....it may offend others...and might overwhelmed many..but if its silat that you are looking for...be sure that you will stumble in to myth and magic..
ok...in silat,mostly malaysian silat.. there are two kind of supernatural source...one is the agonistic source and the other is the islamic source or religion source....just to make sure that all of us can uderstand the issue better...i will try to explain the fundamental of supernatural powers or as some might know it as magic....
first and foremost...we are not talking about the magic like the one you see in those vegas casinos and hotels...this is the one tht involve the cosmos and universal powers...life force if you may...there is no slight of hand..no amusement tricks...
just like the concept of chi in kung fu or gi qong...this is what we call natural force...in silat the concept of chi is not the same....although they train the mind and soul...it involve the control of other being...the djin....i know this already went over your head...but bear with me....in supernatural and mysticism...the world are devided into 2 worlds...the real world...and the beyond world...or some might say dimensions...it is the intervention of these worlds that actually make supernatural ability in silat possible....when a kung fu master can jump higher than normal person...this is beyond the muscles and body ability...this is the mind power...but in silat..its is beyond reality of mass and material...supernatural
i try my best not to sound to ethnocentric...but in silat nowadays...the element of misticisme is what sells a silat organization...masters and gurus claiming they have more mystic power than the others...but in reality this actually tainted the whole idea of making silat a platform of humanity....
to be honest...i'm a modern person with tradition of islam and malay as my roots...i know most of you..my brothers pesilat of the western world..think of mysticism in silat as magic and only for the purpose of fancy tricks and mysterious death...thats why i dont refered it as magic...because it is not....it is the knowledge of the universe and beyond....
but i must emphasize here is that the muslims are prohibited to assosiate themselves with djin and mystical being other than the one god...
there is no sience explanation for the mystical art in silat...but there are some that i can dish out to the science fan...
remote viewing..this is as real as a heart attack...in silat this is the way pendekar and panglima can foresee the approching enemy....
hypnotic...it actually works the same as the scientific methods but in more complicated way...like the one that i mention of the eye contact and the gleem of the eyes...
basicly in order to understand the supernatural power in silat...one should first embrace the unseen and understand the concept of mind,body and soul...
to tell you the truth...it is hard for me to explain it in simple english....but may be if there is any questions or query...i could tackle the issue in more detail...
my apology for my short coming...
salam...

[Sagacious Lu]

...in silat the concept of chi is not the same....although they train the mind and soul...it involve the control of other being...the djin....i know this already went over your head...but bear with me....in supernatural and mysticism...the world are devided into 2 worlds...the real world...and the beyond world...

I've heard of djin (I think I've seen it spelled djinn) before. From what I understand they're supposed to be spirits that can be contacted and controled or bargained with? Please go into greater detail, what are they and how do they figure in silat?

Almost all Silat styles practice both "hard" and "soft" techniques within their respective curriculums. In Silat, the mind, body and spirit are seen as being in a state of togetherness, thus the training is directed towards the cultivation of the "person" as a "whole" and not just towards perfecting his or her fighting ability.

We certainly have this in common; the same can be said of the Shaolin Kung Fu I practice.

[husnira]

I've heard of djin (I think I've seen it spelled djinn) before. From what I understand they're supposed to be spirits that can be contacted and controled or bargained with? Please go into greater detail, what are they and how do they figure in silat?

salam....
to explain more on the subject of djinn,i hope that all those who read this thread to have an open mind and please do understand that there are people with differnt culture and religious background all around the world...if there is any problem with my explanation,please refer back to rather than giving your own opinion...all taht i'm going to explain now is not my own understanding but the faith and teaching of my religion...
the djinn is abeing that is not as same as human or human spirits...humans are made from earth...but djinn are made from fire...they live in another world or dimension...they are more advance in technologies in which very hard for us to understand...and they does not live in just one world..all of the dimensions other than us is occupied by them...the estimation of their population is about 1 human to 100k of them...they also have religion and culture...they can live for thousands of years...from my encounter,it was a djinn that helped to build the pyramid..its master was the pharaoh..
djinn have the ability to change its form..but their real form are ugly and deformed...like the orcs in the lord of the ring movie...but like i said..they have other dimensions and they varies from one dimension to another...one good explanation of u.f.os,is a kind of djinn that are very advance...
in silat the use of djinn's help is prohibited by islam...but there are conditions...maybe i will explain that conditions later....some silat that are so mystical almost evrything got to do with djinn...the problem with djinn is...they are assosiated with the dark being...demons...which are diffrent but the same form...fire
when supernatural ability in silat such as flying kris...the kris will fly from the hand of the pendekar and can change its path to stab an enemy...the djinn is rsponsible to guide the kris...u will also hear the story of a kriss that will vibrate in it seath when enemy is approching..its the djinn that knows and thru the kris,it comunicate with its master....
why do the djinn is used...because they are not attached to the law of physics and mass...they can go thru walls and be as tiny as a bacteria...they can be anywhere in this world in a bilnk of an eye....
all the abilities of the djinn are used by silat practitioner to do their bidding...but to have their loyalty and faith..u must also be someone with great knowledge and ability...so that they will consider u as their master...
silat practitioner which use djinn are known to have great ability,death blows,can cure sickness,vast knowledge and many more strange and supernatural abilities...
the master will also must perform certain ritual in regular basis so that he maintain powerfull to control and command the djinn that he have...just think of it as caring for a pet...but this pet can do many things and people cant see it...the ritual can be something like offerings and prayers...as an example,like the kriss that fly,the kriss must be taken care of like wrapping it in yellow cloth,smoked with joss rocks(kemeyan).prep the blade with lime.by cutting them and smear it on the blade...and many more...
the task of the djinn not only to do supernatural attacks and death blows..but also to protect the master from other master's djinn...this what will lead to other dimension war..from the discription of the war that was witness and fought by my friend...its a bit like lord of the ring war scenes...
some silat masters also used their djinn for monetary activities such as finding lost items and curing mystery sickness...
actuallty i can demonstrate some of it here but i dont know if it can be done internationally..i mean to scan a persons background just by using his name,mothers maiden name and date of birth...this is one of the great abillity.....but i can tell u here because most probably u cant even accept my explanation about the djinn...and hopefully u will not belive me...
dear friends..in most parts of asia,especially south east asia...the concept of spirits and magic is still acceptable...but many or most of the people here does not understand the real knowledge of god and self being...in which are known as the white knowledge...not white magic...
the explanation that i give here are more than what most people understand of supernatural and mysticism..the lost of understanding of that will lead to confusion and paganistic belief...
i hope my explanation here were good enough...i had a hard time to translate the jargons and had to make lenghty explanations...sorry for that..please do ask if there is anything that you find difficult to understand...
as i said earlier...the explanation were from my teaching and not from my opinion....
salam....

[Sagacious Lu]

salam....
to explain more on the subject of djinn,i hope that all those who read this thread to have an open mind and please do understand that there are people with differnt culture and religious background all around the world...if there is any problem with my explanation,please refer back to rather than giving your own opinion...all taht i'm going to explain now is not my own understanding but the faith and teaching of my religion...
the djinn is abeing that is not as same as human or human spirits...humans are made from earth...but djinn are made from fire...they live in another world or dimension...they are more advance in technologies in which very hard for us to understand...and they does not live in just one world..all of the dimensions other than us is occupied by them...the estimation of their population is about 1 human to 100k of them...they also have religion and culture...they can live for thousands of years...from my encounter,it was a djinn that helped to build the pyramid..its master was the pharaoh..
djinn have the ability to change its form..but their real form are ugly and deformed...like the orcs in the lord of the ring movie...but like i said..they have other dimensions and they varies from one dimension to another...one good explanation of u.f.os,is a kind of djinn that are very advance...
in silat the use of djinn's help is prohibited by islam...but there are conditions...maybe i will explain that conditions later....some silat that are so mystical almost evrything got to do with djinn...the problem with djinn is...they are assosiated with the dark being...demons...which are diffrent but the same form...fire
when supernatural ability in silat such as flying kris...the kris will fly from the hand of the pendekar and can change its path to stab an enemy...the djinn is rsponsible to guide the kris...u will also hear the story of a kriss that will vibrate in it seath when enemy is approching..its the djinn that knows and thru the kris,it comunicate with its master....
why do the djinn is used...because they are not attached to the law of physics and mass...they can go thru walls and be as tiny as a bacteria...they can be anywhere in this world in a bilnk of an eye....
all the abilities of the djinn are used by silat practitioner to do their bidding...but to have their loyalty and faith..u must also be someone with great knowledge and ability...so that they will consider u as their master...
silat practitioner which use djinn are known to have great ability,death blows,can cure sickness,vast knowledge and many more strange and supernatural abilities...
the master will also must perform certain ritual in regular basis so that he maintain powerfull to control and command the djinn that he have...just think of it as caring for a pet...but this pet can do many things and people cant see it...the ritual can be something like offerings and prayers...as an example,like the kriss that fly,the kriss must be taken care of like wrapping it in yellow cloth,smoked with joss rocks(kemeyan).prep the blade with lime.by cutting them and smear it on the blade...and many more...
the task of the djinn not only to do supernatural attacks and death blows..but also to protect the master from other master's djinn...this what will lead to other dimension war..from the discription of the war that was witness and fought by my friend...its a bit like lord of the ring war scenes...
some silat masters also used their djinn for monetary activities such as finding lost items and curing mystery sickness...
actuallty i can demonstrate some of it here but i dont know if it can be done internationally..i mean to scan a persons background just by using his name,mothers maiden name and date of birth...this is one of the great abillity.....but i can tell u here because most probably u cant even accept my explanation about the djinn...and hopefully u will not belive me...
dear friends..in most parts of asia,especially south east asia...the concept of spirits and magic is still acceptable...but many or most of the people here does not understand the real knowledge of god and self being...in which are known as the white knowledge...not white magic...
the explanation that i give here are more than what most people understand of supernatural and mysticism..the lost of understanding of that will lead to confusion and paganistic belief...
i hope my explanation here were good enough...i had a hard time to translate the jargons and had to make lenghty explanations...sorry for that..please do ask if there is anything that you find difficult to understand...
as i said earlier...the explanation were from my teaching and not from my opinion....
salam....

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to explain, I am very interested in learning about other cultures/religeons. I don't understand though, how is it possible for to enlist their aid if it is prohibited by Islam? Is it just Malaysians that believe in them or is it common to all Muslims?

[Tant01]

Hello...

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to explain, I am very interested in learning about other cultures/religeons. I don't understand though, how is it possible for to enlist their aid if it is prohibited by Islam? Is it just Malaysians that believe in them or is it common to all Muslims?

Yes, thanks to Husnira for the interesting post!


Interesting how things blend and adapt to the needs of the people.

[husnira]

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to explain, I am very interested in learning about other cultures/religeons. I don't understand though, how is it possible for to enlist their aid if it is prohibited by Islam? Is it just Malaysians that believe in them or is it common to all Muslims?

salam...
the details about djinn is shared with all muslim in the world..in islam..the quran is never altered since the day the first verse was given to the last prophet...in the quran there is also a chapter on djinn......islam prohibited any manipulation of the djinn by human....djinn also have religion and culture...

the aid of djinn is prohibited...but dont forget when there is white ...there is always black....a true master must understand both black and white...
simply put..the white knowledge is about the purity of gods will and human faith
the black is about manipulation and worldly (material) greed...

i know all this info i've told you are abit strange and difficult to digest...actually i just gave you a pinch of the white knowledge...trust me...it is difficult even for muslims...and as muslims they must believe in djinn and all the quran content...
take your time and learn silat the way you can understand it...
and to my friend tht do belief in practical martial arts...all this would be a mouthfull...
salam to all....

[husnira]

salam...

its been a while now...but i think the discussion on djinn and things that go bump in the night, might spook some of us...but please continue this orum on silat as one of your branch of knowledge on this exotic martial art....and thank to people like TANT01 and BOARSPEAR...more people now can have discussion on silat...and also thank to the moderators that have been good tu us all....
i would like to continue other thread on silat and if there is ever any question on silat that any of defend.net forumer wants a nusantara point of view...please post the question here and maybe we can help you...the biggest mistake is not to lose but to accept lost before the fight...salam to all..