My Take on Karate

[Thai Bri]

So, a poor guy who was an emotional wreck can now walk normally? I don't mean to be hard, but what has that got to do with the day two nasties want to cave his face in?

IPON - by "visualising" I mean't actually visualising a scenario unfolding, and reacting to it in a spontaneous ways. Not visualising the pre set pattern that is Kata.

brokenelbow - of course the other skills, i.e. actually knowing how to perform the techniques, matter. No one said they didn't.

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
So, a poor guy who was an emotional wreck can now walk normally? I don't mean to be hard, but what has that got to do with the day two nasties want to cave his face in?

Nothing - other than he now has a more confident demeanor and is therfore less of a target to predators that are looking for an easy mark. He will also be more willing to stand up and defend himself now he may have previously been and is better equipped to do so.

Additionally, as I have pointed out in previous posts - I believe that MA applies to more than just fighting it has a mental aspect as well - it carries over to all aspects of life and can positively (or negatively) affect your career, social bearing, home life, etc.... there are many positive benefits - (he it might even relieve some stress and put you in a more positive mood ..... )

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
So, a poor guy who was an emotional wreck can now walk normally? I don't mean to be hard, but what has that got to do with the day two nasties want to cave his face in?

BTW - we did 3 on one sparring as part of what we were doing (about 80% contact) - he took a good beating for a little bit but stood up for himself pretty effectively and was able to "extract" himself from the situation.

[Thai Bri]

I am in a positive mood. I think that you have totally failed to answer my point about false confidence. All you did was tell me of how you made a guy feel more confident....... See how that doesn't cut it?

And as regards whether or not youre training him to be better able to defend himself, I would suggest that you're not. Well, certainly not with air punching Kata dancin' 3 steppin' nonsense.

3 on 1? 80% contact? It seems to me that this should destroy almost anyone. If he is standing up t it, they must have used 80% of not a great deal.

Get three ordinary blokes into your school for the day. Tell THEM to take on any of your students, or even you. Tell them to use 80% contact, and then see what happens.

Have an ambulance on stand by.

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
I am in a positive mood. I think that you ahve totally failed to answer my point about false confidence. All you did was tell me of how you made a guy feel more confident....... See how that doesn't cut it?

And as regards whether or not youre training him to be better able to defend himself, I would suggest that you're not. Well, certainly not with air punching Kata dancin' 3 steppin' nonsense.

Ah, but see your missing the point - as I stated previously, yes those techniques are a part of the training - but not the only methods that are being used. The "simulations" that we carry on are as close to real situations as I come to making then (obviously we can't simulate 100% but we do the best we can) - we utilize both physical offenses, verbal "abuse" and multiple assailants - and this is a contact scenario - do what you need to do to get away type thing.

As for the confidence, I fail to see your point - if you feel more confident and carry yourself more confidante how is this false confidence?

[Thai Bri]

Because you need to able to back it up when someone calls your bluff. Isn't it obvious?

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri


3 on 1? 80% contact? It seems to me that this should destroy almost anyone. If he is standing up t it, they must have used 80% of not a great deal.

Yes 3 on 1 - 80% - and yes it is tough.

First you say that you must train with contact and reality then, when you find someone doing it you berate them and ridicule them ....... I think your arguing just for the sake of arguing now ....'

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
Because you need to able to back it up when someone calls your bluff. Isn't it obvious?

Never said it was a bluff ........

[Thai Bri]

No, you didn't. Its me that says it is.

I have known good clubs, that train hard and effectively. They usde hard contact, tough physical conditioning and frightening scenario based techniques. These clubs are as rare as rocking horse shit.

I have also seen mainstream martial arts, where people wear pyjamas, hit thin air, dance with Katas, play tag and generally prat about like morons. They too feel that they are undertaking tough and realistic self defence training.

If your club is like the former, why oh why are you wasting your time with the techniques of the latter?

[nolimitskarate]

Again - We utilize these other tecniques to learn the basics - call them our training wheels if you like - good technique is important -it's very easy to hurt yourself by punching or kick incorrectly - (I.e> break a wrist, tear a tendon, etc......_.). They also build balance and help increase flexability - the focus then becomes how to apply the techniques - and this involves the latter techniques that we discussed.

Last point on Katas - Yes I think they have a purpose for "finding techniques" - but mostly I use them to train my mind and body to work togethor - I find they give me better clarity and are a great stress reliever (again it's not all physical - some of it has to do with mental fitness as well) - plus, if there done CORRECTLY - they do build stamina a strength ( I know hit the bag - I do that to but some times it's nice to mix it up).

Final point on confidence - my experiance is that a large number of preditors want an easy target - they will stay away from someone who is willing to meet them eye to eye and carry themsleves with confidece and ease - I want to eliminate as many offenders as possible by teaching non physical means to eliminate aggressors, then what are we left with .....

Obviously, there are those thugs who just want to get it on for the sake of wreaking vioulence - these are the ones where we must back it up - walk the walk so to speak - these are the ones that we must train the hardest for.

[nolimitskarate]

OK - Reeling now - must get coffee - go to work - clear mind - prepare for new onslought ................



- Later .........

[Thai Bri]

Man I don't need to give you a new onslaught. You haven't dealt with any of the old one.......

[nolimitskarate]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
Man I don't need to give you a new onslaught. You haven't dealt with any of the old one.......

I disagree - I have answered each of your arguments with a response. I have pointed out were I think we agree and where we disagree - and to some extent why. I have explained my beliefs and points and why I think there relevent and your response has either been to say that it's just not so or fall back on the same tired arguments -

no disrespect intended but I think that our biggest disconect is that I teach basics as basics and for the love of the art - you see no point on them - fine ....

But we also work contact and simulation (which you seem to have taken issue with as well)

3 on 1? 80% contact? It seems to me that this should destroy almost anyone. If he is standing up t it, they must have used 80% of not a great deal.

So, I believe we are at an impasse ..........

[Thai Bri]

Theres a difference between a response and a satisfactory response.

For example, I say that you're inefficient training is giving a guy false confidence. You say "I never said I was giving him false confidence". Not much of a retort. You're answering an accusation I never made. Think. I never accused you of saying it, I accused you of doing it.

And three on one sparring at 80% contact? Seems that at least three of your guys must be wimps. I would love to see it, and would bet a hefty sum that their so called attacks are carefully designed to give him a chance. Three people could beat one without any striking at all, merely by rushing at and grabbing/wrestling a guy to the ground.

You make lots of declarations that this or that is effective. But you can never say "how" it is. Whereas I give you bucket fulls of "how" it isn't.

I have been where you are now. Lots of things brought me out of it. Like real fights I had, early UFCs, training with those that had seen the light. I guess talking to some guy on the net wouldn't have cut it for me, neither.

Try this. Pop into a Thai Boxing gym, and then a BJJ type class. Spar and roll with the students. No threats, no aggression. All under some kind of rules.

I'm not being funny. I've been to these places and done just that. It was a painful, yet priceless lesson. A bit hard on the ego though.

[nolimitskarate]

For example, I say that you're inefficient training is giving a guy false confidence. You say "I never said I was giving him false confidence". Not much of a retort. You're answering an accusation I never made. Think. I never accused you of saying it, I accused you of doing it.

Thai Bri -

You are incorrect I responded with "I don't consider the confidence I instill in my students “false confidence”. "- but then proceeded to explain why I believe that this is not true - why confidence is important and where it plays a roll. I have not seen an argument from you to dispute these facts.

??