Thai Bri - Defense against firearms (or anybody else)

[Spookey]

I missed the point!

Hand to Hand,
I must have missed something! Whos post were you replying to?

I agree gun control is a great way to invite communist dictatorship, and gun laws only affect people who abide by them...but what does that have to do with the thread?

Spookey
TAEKWON!

[Spookey]

Thank You

That post by Thai Bri was the one i was responding to.

THANK YOU!
TAEKWON

[TylerDurden]

You can make the claims of guns will be distributed anyways, but the fact remains the united states has around 10,000 gun related deaths a year. England, Canda and Japan put together have something like 100-200. The right to bear arms is guaranteed, but don't try saying it makes anyone safer.

[kengar]

10,000 gun related deaths a year. England, Canda and Japan put together have something like 100-200. The right to bear arms is guaranteed, but don't try saying it makes anyone safer.

Is doesn't make anyone safer. How about the lady who is being raped? How about the lawyer who's home is broken into and dies after defending his families life? There are thousands of incidents a year of people using firearms for self defense. The stories go untold through the media. Much like you don't hear much about the police until something happens and they want to complain about them.

10,000 gun deaths a year. Where do you get this and what are you using for those stats?

[TylerDurden]

Sources? Ok, you got it.

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/aprfir.htm

In 1997 there were 32,436 firearm-related deaths, of which 4,223 of the victims were children and adolescents younger than 20 years of age.
Handguns continue to account for the majority of deaths and injuries from firearms in the United States.
In 1997, 85 percent of all homicides and 63 percent of all suicides for adolescents 15 through 19 years of age were committed with a firearm.

http://www.doctorsagainsthandguninjury.org/docs/gun_injury.pdf

In 2000 there were 10,801 homicides commited with firearms.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

1994 38,805 deaths related to firearms. The 4th leading cause of death.

http://ije.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/2/214.pdf

The rate of firearms deaths in the United States outpaces its economic counterparts but more then 8 times. Not the total, the rate per population size.

Here's a good one.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/wherfvgn.htm

Key Statistics: For every case in which an individual used a firearm kept in the home in a self-defense homicide, there were 1.3 unintentional deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms.

That is for ever gun owned, the majority of which are never used for self protection.

I agree its a guaranteed right on the constitution, but lets be honest about what that right costs. It costs lives, thousands of them every year. Stand up for your rights, but don't fool yourself into thinking the right to bear arms is protecting anyone, its killing them.

[TylerDurden]

Did you read anything I said? I said I support the right to bear arms as part of the constitution, but saying they save lives is a lie. And since when is mexico an ecomonic peer of the united states? I am not going to bother discussing this further with someone who apparently is still in grade school.

[Sasami2000]

I think Franklin summed it up fairly well: "Those who would give up essential liberty in order to obtain a bit of temporary saftey, deserve neither liberty, nor safety."


I live in Idaho, the most conservative state in the union. Almost every house hold has at least one gun, and as far as gun control, we are the most laxed in the nation next to other states like Montana and Wyoming. However we have very few gun related crimes, very few robberies/break ins, etc. Very few crimes at all. No one locks there doors here, and no one tries to break into our homes because they all know we have guns. However in Maine, a state that has a lot of gun control laws, it also has one of the highest crime rates; highest shooting rates, highest break in rates, etc...

The facts are criminals that don't obey the law to not kill someone won't obey the law not to own a gun. Criminals will never give up their guns, only citizens that want to be victims will.

[TylerDurden]

Nice propaganda, do you have any facts to back it up? How about the fact that Idaho has an extremely low urban population. How about posting a few links to back up what you are saying.

[TylerDurden]

Here's an interesting comparison, Idaho vs Maine.
Murder rates per 100,000 people years 2000-2002
Idaho
1.2-2.3-2.7

Maine
1.2-1.4-1.1

So, Maine has a much lower murder rate than Idaho? Less than half in 2002. Funny seeing as how Idaho is such a 'safe' state compared to Maine.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=169#MRord

And for fun, Texas for the same three years.
5.9-6.2-6.0

[Sasami2000]

Any statistics that are not from the FBI's UCR are crap to me. You can get statistics supporting anything off the internet, so it's crap to me unless you quote the FBI. I can find statistics that support high crime rates and robberies over in England, want me to? The news not too long ago said London has an average of 400 robberies a day.

You know why I know we don't have many gun crimes in Idaho? Because I live here, idiot. We don't have bars on our windows or our doors like the people in the east. I can tell you the last couple times we had a gun crime and where and when.

And to the schmuck that commented on our low population rate: that's right. We have a lot less people here, and it probably has a lot to do with our low crime rate. I know it does. But it's odd how you gun control nuts point to Canada and say "look at their gun rate! It's low". Same thing there, they have a small population and very spread out.

[Sasami2000]

Ok, well I checked his link....the death penalty website...but at least they were quoting the UCR. The point I was making was that Idaho has very low crime rate, and even your web site confirms that. I picked the one gun control state that has better results than Idaho (but just barely)...however every other major gun control state has much higher. And I'm using your statistics here..

Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, California I know have many more gun control laws (and many other states), yet according to your statistics they have a higher (and sometimes majorly high) gun crime use. Hmm? Get my point yet? Most of the states at the top of your list have more gun control laws than the ones at the bottom, which have less crimes.

What I also find kind of odd is the annual grades Handguncontrol gave out. (http://www.handguncontrol.org/) The states with the highest gun crimes received the best grades from handguncontrol! California was at the top of the list for gun crimes, yet they received an A-? You gun control people make no sense.

[TylerDurden]

It's funny how what you "know" and what is a statistical fact are different. Idaho has murder rates more than double Maine in 2002. But I guess murder is not a serious problem? And this is in spite of having not urban population. But you "know" all about any gun crimes in Idaho right? You must have like a phone hotline, and call each other about everything right?

Do some research, try and learn the facts not NRA propaganda.

[Sasami2000]

Tyler, did your school fail at teaching you how to read? Here, let me copy and paste my last message that you failed to comphrend. Try again.

"Ok, well I checked his link....the death penalty website...but at least they were quoting the UCR. The point I was making was that Idaho has very low crime rate, and even your web site confirms that. I picked the one gun control state that has better results than Idaho (but just barely)...however every other major gun control state has much higher. And I'm using your statistics here..

Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, California I know have many more gun control laws (and many other states), yet according to your statistics they have a higher (and sometimes majorly high) gun crime use. Hmm? Get my point yet? Most of the states at the top of your list have more gun control laws than the ones at the bottom, which have less crimes.

What I also find kind of odd is the annual grades Handguncontrol gave out. (http://www.handguncontrol.org/) The states with the highest gun crimes received the best grades from handguncontrol! California was at the top of the list for gun crimes, yet they received an A-? You gun control people make no sense."

Idiot.

[IPON]

High Guncontrol = Hi Crime
Low Guncontrol = Low Crime

Please look up spurious correlation and apply to your equation

[Sasami2000]

Sas: I think that Tylor is so stupid that he nead to be explictly told that according to his own websights, states that have high gun control rates, have high crime rates. So i will break it down for him in a very simple easy to follow format. So Tylor your own websights say that;

High Guncontrol = Hi Crime
Low Guncontrol = Low Crime

Tylor: You gun control people have your head up your asses!!!!

I think you're right handtohand. I don't think he really knows his statistics actually prove his entire argument wrong. lol