Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Karate ain't so bad

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • You didn't make an ounce of sense to me then mate. Not an ounce.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Thai Bri
      You didn't make an ounce of sense to me then mate. Not an ounce.
      Shows how intelligent brittish cops are
      I train for the fun of it

      if you say you are worse off training karate than training not at all then you must ahve taken longer to grasp what you are doing now
      A kid can understand that

      Comment


      • Well, one of us is a little thick.

        Any activity that trains your body to do it "wrong" is obviously going to be harmful to your fighting prowess. Whether or not Karate is "wrong" is up for discussion. But surely you can see the logic of the argument.

        Lets stretch it a bit with a silly example. Imagine I train to defend against an oncoming punch by raising my hands in the air and singing a little song. Done often enough, that is how I will react for real. I'm sure you'll agree that this type of training is not better than nothing. Now, gettng back to the real world... The big blocks, air pulled punches, unrealistic distances etc. etc. of mainstream karate IS training your body to do it wrong. Thats why it is better off not to train at al than to train mainstream Karate.

        Are you up to speed yet?

        Comment


        • For karate being effective I think it depends on the ryu. Kyoukushin and full contact styles are effective and do well in k-1 and mma comp.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Thai Bri
            There isn't really a double ear throw.... But, wehen Shredding, if you get a good hold of both of the ears, then both pull and twist the head, you can take a man down as easy as pie. And yo are spot on re point sparring. That is YET ANOTHER way in which Karate IS SO BAD. Yet again it teaches you how to do it WRONG!

            Toudy - so, Karate isn't so bad. But you no longer do it. Great logic......... Haw haw haw!
            Comparing Karate's Roundhouse Punch versus Muay Thai's Roundhouse Punch:

            and the winner is.....

            Muay Thai's Roundhouse Punch

            why??????

            because all Karate hand attacks - the fist came from the side of waist then deliver to the target..... while..... in Muay Thai - the fist doesnt came from the waist and to the target.

            If the fist came from the waist and to the target is a good and a clear TELEGRAPHIC MOVE. Even thou how fast you deliver your hand attack if it comes from the waist and to the target - even A NAKED EYE CAN CATCH OR FOLLOW THE DIRECTION AND SPEED OF THE FIST.

            Rule:
            Hands are Faster than eyes, except a for a telegraphic move.

            Note:
            If most of your attack is considered a telegraphic move, then i will no longer need my WingChun's ChiSau cause i can simply use my eyes to detect your intention.

            But.......

            These Karate and Muay Thai can be seen their fist attacks thru their SHOULDER. I can see you fist intension thru your shoulder, but Karate is the worst cause their fist as i said before, comes from the WAIST.

            This is the Dis-advantages that i see frequently in Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Thai Bri
              Well, one of us is a little thick.

              Any activity that trains your body to do it "wrong" is obviously going to be harmful to your fighting prowess. Whether or not Karate is "wrong" is up for discussion. But surely you can see the logic of the argument.

              Lets stretch it a bit with a silly example. Imagine I train to defend against an oncoming punch by raising my hands in the air and singing a little song. Done often enough, that is how I will react for real. I'm sure you'll agree that this type of training is not better than nothing. Now, gettng back to the real world... The big blocks, air pulled punches, unrealistic distances etc. etc. of mainstream karate IS training your body to do it wrong. Thats why it is better off not to train at al than to train mainstream Karate.

              Are you up to speed yet?
              And then I reply once more: "So you took longer to become proficient than when you wouldn't have done Karate at all, and your prove is that others took less time since they never trained karate
              Big Blocks=Shotokan + offshoots
              Unrealistic distancing well beg to differ, I see MMA fights were they fight at the same distance ( for instance to prevent a take down)

              Sherwinc:

              We already concluded you don't know swat about karate, in kumite the rearhand is near the elbow of the fronthand

              Appart from that you claim you will see a Thaipunch comming, yeah you do but it will still land (as will my reverse punch after a jab)

              Comment


              • Your talking in riddles.

                As for MMA fighting in the same distance? That is just stupid. Just because a small part of an encounter is at that distance means jack shit! Especialy when the vast majority of it is rolling around on the bleedin floor!

                You are wilfully blind. I despair for ya!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Thai Bri
                  People do keep saying that Kata is just a "tool". [snip]
                  I say it is worse than ineffective, it is positively harmful to the development of a real fighter.
                  Actually I have to agree with Thai Bri. Forms, Katas etc. are only good to give "sifus", "senseis" and instructor the right to judge students and to make money out of examinations to obtain degrees.
                  Noone ever fought thanks to belts, degrees or katas. Look at boxers, kickboxers, Muay Thai fighters. Some of them are world champions at the age of 18. Some enter the rings after few months of hard training and sparring.
                  In western boxing you only have jab, cross, hook, uppercut but using these tools in the right way in sparring you develop a deadly power.
                  Or take combatives. Do you think Fairbairn or Applegate learnt to fight through kata repetition? We live in 2004 and not in 1700 Japan.

                  Comment


                  • i NEVER SAID kARATE WAS bAD.

                    I think most of it in the US is, but not all. I can and will say yhat some of those old Karate guys have some serious energy that you dont see often. I am not tlaking about the screaming or flexing of muscle, not even of Ki as the Japanese arts know it.

                    Some root like internal Chinese arts. Some have good use of Chi. Still Ever so lightly more stifled than KF practitioners. But you can't help that its the nature of some of the movements is restricting. Restricted movement causes restricted energy flow, period. Even on the purely physics level. I have seen some video of really high ranking skilled Karateka doing what we know as veyr hard karate forms flowinglike water and a cool breeze. I was vrey impressed. Most are taught to kiai there guts out and flex like mad. But are never taught why you Kiai or that there is more than one use, or that you should eventually not need to kiai. Or that if you do it all the damn time it looses some effect. (ps I hate that stuff, is it obvious)


                    In conclusion, no not all karate is bad. Just those from schools with 4 year black belts and 6 or even 8 year masters. If you did every one of you techniques a couple hundred times a day for 8 yeaars then maybe you'd be a master oif that particular set of skills. The hopefully you can apply them.

                    BTW All Kungfu is meant to be mixed martial art. That changed as a result of self preservation.
                    My Art is very eccelctic though traditional in structure. We fight full contact all the way to the ground, until the ref(me Mostly) says stop or somone taps.
                    we train weapons, stick, knife, gun as well as traditional Chinese weps.
                    We do Stress training.

                    Its the responsibility of the instructor to find a way to prepare his students for life as a martial artist. Teachers who won't or can't do that are failing in there responsibility.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PaiLumUmar
                      i NEVER SAID kARATE WAS bAD.

                      I think most of it in the US is, but not all. I can and will say yhat some of those old Karate guys have some serious energy that you dont see often. I am not tlaking about the screaming or flexing of muscle, not even of Ki as the Japanese arts know it.

                      Some root like internal Chinese arts. Some have good use of Chi. Still Ever so lightly more stifled than KF practitioners. But you can't help that its the nature of some of the movements is restricting. Restricted movement causes restricted energy flow, period. Even on the purely physics level. I have seen some video of really high ranking skilled Karateka doing what we know as veyr hard karate forms flowinglike water and a cool breeze. I was vrey impressed. Most are taught to kiai there guts out and flex like mad. But are never taught why you Kiai or that there is more than one use, or that you should eventually not need to kiai. Or that if you do it all the damn time it looses some effect. (ps I hate that stuff, is it obvious)


                      In conclusion, no not all karate is bad. Just those from schools with 4 year black belts and 6 or even 8 year masters. If you did every one of you techniques a couple hundred times a day for 8 yeaars then maybe you'd be a master oif that particular set of skills. The hopefully you can apply them.

                      BTW All Kungfu is meant to be mixed martial art. That changed as a result of self preservation.
                      My Art is very eccelctic though traditional in structure. We fight full contact all the way to the ground, until the ref(me Mostly) says stop or somone taps.
                      we train weapons, stick, knife, gun as well as traditional Chinese weps.
                      We do Stress training.

                      Its the responsibility of the instructor to find a way to prepare his students for life as a martial artist. Teachers who won't or can't do that are failing in there responsibility.

                      I think PAI LUM that you mean is a Dragon Style KungFu. Are you familiar with the KungFu Style known as "SOUTHERN EAGLE CLAW"??????
                      Note:
                      not the Northern Style Eagle Claw but what i mean is - the Southern Eagle Claw KungFu.

                      I think Dragon Style and other clawing style like Tiger Style and Northern Eagle Style use 5fingers for clawing while these Southern Eagle Style use only 3fingers. And according to my instructor, 3finger grabbing is more stronger compare to 5fingers.

                      Ever since before Mantis Style KungFu was invented - there are already two well know KungFu Styles who mostly fights each other frequently. These are the Southern Snake Style versus the Southern Eagle Style KungFu and only AngKa KungFu can defeat this Southern Eagle Claw.
                      Why?
                      Because AngKa (the sister art of NgoChoKun KungFu) its advantages is their IronSkin or Golden Bell Cover Training or Iron Forearm KungFu. Eagle Claw cannot draw blood clawing unto even the body of AngKa while AngKa's Iron Palm do damage to the chest of the Southern Eagle Claw as a finishing move.

                      Snake Style KungFu is a 100% TECHNIQUE
                      Southern Eagle Style KungFu is 70% CLAW TRAINING & 30% TECHNIQUE

                      Normally, Snake Style KungFu cannot beat this Southern Style Eagle Claw, How about this Dragon Style KungFu of yours???????

                      Comment


                      • In the context of this thread this is a little off, but a certain Mr D has and excellent post on his forums which will make you think.

                        I found that my karate is lacking, I worked this out years ago and have trained hard and dedicated myself to improving in it. To do that I have had to adopt many things that are not taught in a traditional Karate school, I've become a bit of a self taught MMA and last week I was still buttom raped by Bri even though hes older and err not as thin as I am in a bulging type way.

                        Karate as a striking art isn't bad, but it then translates into kickboxing (in my opinion) Karate as a means of self defence isn't effective, its too stiff and too complex and resistant to change, and once you change it theres less and less of it that actually 'stays' karate. But then I concur that if you boil the colour out of the sheet you get a white sheet (I swear that's something Cantona would say).

                        Anyway, read Mr D's post, then go to class, get the biggest guy there to put on his civvies, give him a training knife and tell him you raped his mother. Then get him to attack you any way he wants, get him to do it like it happens in a bar, lots of verbal, lots of pushing and shoving, tell him that his aim is to get you on the floor and stabbed. Then when he attacks you see if the knife defence wrist lock works while he pounds you with his other hand, feet, head. Anyway i digress, heres Mr D:

                        Is X art going to be effective on the street?
                        There seems to be allot of questions like these popping up. More often than not, it is the practitioner that make it happen, the style, range or tool that was used is incidental. However, this isn't true for many, this is the exception to the rule and not the rule itself. Like I mentioned a few times on previous posts, there are people out there who can make TKD work in the streets, this doesn't mean TKD would be the choice art for enhancing survivability.

                        In order for an art or system to enhance your chances at survivng a real fight, a real violent confrontation, an attmepted rape, mugging or murder, it is essential for this art or system to be rooted in reality.

                        This art has to be 3 dimetional. It has to properly (not adequately, not dabble in) but properly and fully deal with the emotional, psychological, and physical aspects in terms that replicate how real fights start, why they start, which attacks are the most common, how intention to action begins, etc.

                        Too many times the word 'sparring' comes up... "we spar hard", "we spar agaisnt various styles" etc. when was the last time you saw or heard of a rapist strap on a pair of 12 ounce boxing gloves, set a 3 minute time limit prior to raping a woman in the entrance of her own home?

                        Ask yourself the following questions and answer them honestly without thinking about how you train or any martial art in question.

                        What is a real violent confrontation?
                        Who are the most likely to be attacked?
                        How will you most likely be attacked?
                        What frame of mind will you be in when you are attacked?
                        Should you be concenred about the Tai Chi expert attacking you? Should you be concerned about the golden gloves champion attacking you or maybe the last UFC champion?

                        The real threats are the rapists, the muggers, the random bullies and ego jocks, the road rage incidents, the potential murderers, spousal & parental abuse etc.

                        The difference between the dojo and the street is the unknown. Remember, awareness, concsent and preparation will not be present. Your ttacker will not be squaring off you, he is not there to "spar". Therefore the mind set is that of surprise and the attack is usually sudden when one is ill prepared and most always starts with an attack on the mind which triggers emotional inertia. Like it or not.

                        A person’s ability to perform certain techniques that require fine or complex motor skills greatly diminishes while under attack. On the other hand, gross motor skills such as grabbing, tearing, ripping, striking, biting are not only not affected during high stress situations, they are enhanced thanks to mother nature's hard wiring of our survival mechanism.

                        You want to know if your system will enhance your survival during a serious violent attack that triggered the mind and caused emotional inertia prior to you even being touched? How do you train? Does your training replicate reality YES or NO?

                        What is reality? Go to your nearest 'hard reputed' club or bar on a Friday or Saturday night and simply observe the behavior, the initiation, the escalation and the treacherous development of a few fights. See if any of the participants "spar", stand at 4 or 5 feet away from each other first and square off. Check it out and compare it to the training that you do.

                        You'll notice several things. You'll notice that while someone is being grabbed with feral anger, he is also being severely verbally agressed. You'll probably also notice that one or two or even more of his friends are standing behind him screaming and yelling for him to kill you. You'll probably also notice that you are instinctively grabbing him back trying to maintain your space and that the words coming out of your mouth are for the most part, not exactly defusing the situation...

                        Is this how you trained the 2 arm lapel grab last time in class? Or was it just you and your class partner while he grabbed you in a 2 arm lapel grab with some degree of force but simply stood there waiting for you to execute your technique?

                        What about other attacks? Which one's do you spend more time on training?

                        How much time is devoted to defending against the jab, the thai kick, the technical clinch, the side kick, the perfectly executed hook punch, the arm bar, the wrist lock?

                        How much time is devoted to defending against a sucker punch in the middle of a verbal confrontation, a hard tackle off of a verbal assault, a knife coming out while struggling in the clinch.

                        How are you dressed while doing this? A gi? Thai shorts? Tank top? Bare feet maybe?

                        What about winter boots? A 3 quarter jacket? Jeans? Heals? Suit and tie? 30 pound schoolbag on your back?

                        If you isolate an attack without incorporating realistic levels of physical and verbal aggression in order t trigger the emotional inertia, when faced with a real attack outside the dojo, ring, matts whatever... the student will more often than not experience 'freezing' from lack of suffice information. The mind will have no comparable experience making it almost impossible for them to respond effectively. Why? Because the brain will revert bak to the training but the training never dealt with this unfortunately "new information". No one in class ever nearly put me through a wall while grabbing me like that and calling my mother a filthy c*** licking whore?!?!

                        How much time does your system devote to avoiding and defusing a potential threat with proper tools based on reseacrh, experience and statistics? It's not enough to simply tell someone you don't want any trouble. It's not enough telling someone you don't want to fight. This is NOT defusing a fight at all. On the contrary, the majority of what is being taught as verbal defusing in most schools today will actually escalate the situation. When was the last time you actually verbally de-escalated the scenario you were in where it didn't go physcial and your partner who was the intended attacker turned around and said "Damn man, I didn't know what else to say, you got me."

                        What about the physical aspect? Well, what about it? Like I mentioned earlier, we are already hard wired with a survival mechanism, mother nature took care of that. If your physical arsenal consists of tools or techniques that require fine and complex motor skills, then the chances of them working are minimal, argue all you want, it has been scientifically proven time and time again. So your physical arsenal should enhance what God already gave you as opposed to negate it through stylistic intereference (your bodies desire to perform a move that directly negates the already bypassed cognitive brain by the mid brain due to the adrenal stress and fight ot flight response).

                        What does your physical arsenal look like? How many hours do you spend on elaborate submissions, on perfecting your punches, kicks, elbows and knees? How much time do you spend actually using these tools not in sparring but in fighting against the unkown opponent? Unknown meaning, you don't know if he has a friend on the side who'll jump in, you don't know if he's carrying a weapon or not, you don't know how he is going to react or what he is going to do because there are no parameters created by rules in sparring... this is real now...

                        Let me add to this the following:

                        Does your style spend a considerable amount of time teaching you about the legalities of your implications in a real fight? How to deal with witnesses? How to talk to a cop if your caught?

                        What about the revenge factor? Does your system teach you that after you've won your fight that the guy you just beat on may seek revenge? Do they teach you how to deal with the sometimes grim aftermath of your actions?

                        Real violence is behaviorally rooted. Sparring isn't. Martial arts training is physically rooted. "When someone does this, you do that." Not many explain or teach how to avoid "someone doing this" in order for "that" not to become the primary choice action. So, is your training behaviorally rooted, yes or no? Does it take into consideration pre contact psychology yes or no? Is the physical training adaptable to your hard wired survival system or are you trying to reprogram thousands of years of evolution with new techniques that require timing, torque, distance, and a high degree of skill and cognitive processing? You be the judge.

                        SO IF WHAT I JUST WROTE ABOVE IS PROPERLY AND ADEQUATELY COVERED IN THE STYLE YOU ARE PRESENTLY TRAINING IN, THEN YES, IT IS GOOD FOR THE STREETS, IF NOT, THEN NO, IT ISN'T. NO NEED TO ASK IF YOUR STYLE IS GOOD FOR STREETS OR NOT ANYMORE.
                        _________________
                        Sincerely,
                        Rich

                        Comment


                        • I only realised it was Richard Dimitri speaking at the end of the post.... I thought you'd become an instant expert Nit! Haw haw haw!

                          The thread was entitiled "Karate ain't so bad". If you judge it as an art to keep you alive in the modern dangerous world.... Then it is. It is awful.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
                            And then I reply once more: "So you took longer to become proficient than when you wouldn't have done Karate at all, and your prove is that others took less time since they never trained karate
                            Big Blocks=Shotokan + offshoots
                            Unrealistic distancing well beg to differ, I see MMA fights were they fight at the same distance ( for instance to prevent a take down)

                            Sherwinc:

                            We already concluded you don't know swat about karate, in kumite the rearhand is near the elbow of the fronthand

                            Appart from that you claim you will see a Thaipunch comming, yeah you do but it will still land (as will my reverse punch after a jab)
                            That is what i mean, Karate only good in RingFights, but in street situation Karate is useless cause anyone already knows the karate combination, they only use LungPunch, Reverse Punch, Frontal Kick, Side Kick, Roundhouse Kick and nothing more..... there are no hidden/undiscovered/unfamiliar techniques

                            Note:
                            You can apply your technique only once, in a KungFu World, the moment you repeat your attacking technique again and its your dis-advantages. It is better that you learn more while you master all your technique.

                            Example of a Familiar Karate Combinations:
                            The Karate Attack his opponent using FrontalKick, then reverse punch, then roundhousekick, then sidekick, then downward block, then reverse punch, then lungpunch then sidekick again, then roundhouse kick again, then attack again with that same attack, then again...... (a repetition of techniques, a limited techniques, are there any advance techniques?)

                            Here is for you to understand:
                            We know how to counter all that type of karate attacking apparatus, are there any more advanced techniques?

                            Perhaps Karate is only the basics of KungFu and nothing more

                            Pls......
                            Don't just defend your Karate, pls do try to share what you see the negative side of any KungFu, just mention that type of KungFu and i explain to you for you to see that KungFu is the best style/system ever created (traditionally)
                            There's no need to say "don't criticize any martial style cause there is really the best style, what do martial minded people is a humble type. I repeat, There is really the Best Style thou it depends upon the type of a Practitioner who practice his art continously and gradually.

                            This is defend.net - do defend your art from any critization, but, the best defense is offence, then do defend your art by offensive crization, do criticize my KungFu so that i may know my dis-advantages. We can learn more from that sharing type, hehehe

                            Comment


                            • You barking mad.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Thai Bri
                                You barking mad.
                                Mad as a hatter, that one.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X