As a Sensei what would you do?

[TNT]

Would you let someone with no prior martial arts training, train with higher ranks for self defense?

[Thai Bri]

Oh yes. Without the pre conceived ideas instilled by the system you teach (whatever that is) the mutual benefit could be great indeed.

And the higher ranks in the lesser able systems may well get their faces filled in.

[brokenelbow]

Let them? I'd welcome them and give them a place of honor. Thai Bri is right, non-trained people execute and react in ways that have been trained out of martial artists. Whatever rank I have is for the dojo only and means nothing during a self defense situation. So to me it also means nothing during self defense training.

[TNT]

[QUOTE=brokenelbow]Let them? I'd welcome them and give them a place of honor. Thai Bri is right, non-trained people execute and react in ways that have been trained out of martial artists. Whatever rank I have is for the dojo only and means nothing during a self defense situation. So to me it also means nothing during self defense training.[/QUO

Thanks for your input ,as well! Much appreciated.

[brokenelbow]

TNT, what happened to your original post?

[crouton]

that is exactly how our system trains. everybody trains together. i think its the best way, when teaching self defense.

[Hikage]

Let them? I'd welcome them and give them a place of honor. Thai Bri is right, non-trained people execute and react in ways that have been trained out of martial artists. Whatever rank I have is for the dojo only and means nothing during a self defense situation. So to me it also means nothing during self defense training.

I have to agree with this. You'd be stupid not to. It's just a matter of control. Whenever you're working with a beginner never give them your entire body to work with. I.E. when doing straight arm locks, never let them lock out your arm entirely. They won't mean to, but sometimes they will take it too far. When I was first learning, I ripped my Soke's shoulder out because he was demonstrating a counter to someone else. As a beginner, I didn't know my own strength, I did it while he was talking, not looking and I did it to fast. Funny tho, I didn't know it at the time. He just calmly took his arm from me and gave me his other one. He never betrayed any kind of pain. It wasn't until years later that he told me what I had done.

-Hikage

[TNT]

?

TNT, what happened to your original post?

I'm sorry....do you mean the ....As a Sensei what would you do?

[brokenelbow]

TNT, you mentioned an experience you had training with a senior belt. Damn my mind must be going.

[Ox Lion]

I've been learning Shukokai karate for a year now, and i train with my friend who is a black belt (1st dan) and sometimes my sensie (4th dan) will even tell me to spar and train with him. I have trained like this since I first began and the sensie who does my gradings tells me I am above where i should be in terms of skill. I am currently an orange belt, 7th kyu. He says I actually border on blue 5th kyu. This could be down to the way i am trained or not, but I think it is.

[Hikage]

I've been learning Shukokai karate for a year now, and i train with my friend who is a black belt (1st dan) and sometimes my sensie (4th dan) will even tell me to spar and train with him. I have trained like this since I first began and the sensie who does my gradings tells me I am above where i should be in terms of skill. I am currently an orange belt, 7th kyu. He says I actually border on blue 5th kyu. This could be down to the way i am trained or not, but I think it is.

I risk saying this becuase I don't at all desire to cause dissention between you and your sensei. But I am curious.. and this isn't directed at you, I see this all the time and it always makes me wonder..
If you have someone who has the skills of a blue belt, but has only been promoted to an orange belt, why not promote them to the rank they deserve? Isn't rank supposed to be a demonstration of your skill and understanding? Why do we base it on time as a certain belt instead? I understand that in certain circumstances that you need the experience and an underbelt, but come on.. if you have someone who's good, dont' make them marinade in some lower belt and promote them to what they deserve. Is this just a cry for more money? Make them take longer so they have to pay more?

<steps off soap box>

-Hikage

[Infinite4Light7]

right said

[brokenelbow]

Hikage that's a whole nother thread.

[Ox Lion]

Yeah thats a good point but in my federation skipping grades isn't allowed. Its not just to make people stay there longer to levy more money from them either. I know this happens, but not in my club. You see the money my sensei recieves each week doesn't actually cover the cost of the hall we rent out to train in, sensei foots most of the bill himself along side the second instructor.

Also, you have another good point in saying, why hold people back? when they deserve to be on a higher grade. Well my second instructor once told me that they used to skip people ahead to higher grades, but it used to lead to people eventually overestimating their own skills. You can imagine the problems there. He also told me that it's not just the level of skill that warrants belt colours, it's also the level of experience and that is something that cannot be taught and can only be gained over time. So although i am supposedly good enough to be on blue when i'm orange, the fact still remains i've only been doing karate for a year now.

[darrianation]

Yeah thats a good point but in my federation skipping grades isn't allowed. Its not just to make people stay there longer to levy more money from them either. I know this happens, but not in my club. You see the money my sensei recieves each week doesn't actually cover the cost of the hall we rent out to train in, sensei foots most of the bill himself along side the second instructor.

Also, you have another good point in saying, why hold people back? when they deserve to be on a higher grade. Well my second instructor once told me that they used to skip people ahead to higher grades, but it used to lead to people eventually overestimating their own skills. You can imagine the problems there. He also told me that it's not just the level of skill that warrants belt colours, it's also the level of experience and that is something that cannot be taught and can only be gained over time. So although i am supposedly good enough to be on blue when i'm orange, the fact still remains i've only been doing karate for a year now.

My dos cents:

I have a black belt in wado ryu and I'm a 2nd kyu in Sito ryu, and a 4th kyu in a Uechi ryu. Although I have trained in shotokan karate now for 9 months I am still technically a 10th kyu. The association we are in will not let me test for black belt for two years even though I know all the techniques of shotokan and know the katas up through 2nd Dan.

I teach the self-defense class for our school and fight in the black belt division and I can still defeat all the BB in our school and in our association. Even though I am a white belt. This is bull shit in my opinion they should let me test and if I fail then they don't have to give me my black belt and if I pass then give it to me. I have 10 years experience in Karate and another 8 years in other marital arts and another 6 years training on my own and odds and ends.

I won’t test until they let me test for black belt. If it were up to my instructor he would have given me BB 9 months ago. So as a sensei what do you say to this. Wado, And Shito all have similar Katas and techniques I should be given credit for this. I think it’s about money or elitism Wado, and Shito isn’t as good as we are so you must pay us association fees for two years then maybe you can test you wado heathen.