Mas Oyama's Hands

[Nazman]

Hi all,

Just a small question: I'd heard that towards the end of his life Mas Oyama was suffering arthritis in his hands and that on winter morning's he had to soak his hands in warm water to ease the stiffness. Is this true or has someone heard anything similar??

Cheers,

Nazman

[cross]

Im not sure if thats true or not, but I did see a picture once of his knuckles. Super swollen .

[shuyun]

thats dedication (or fixation) for you.

i think he does 2 hrs of breaking a day. now that's tough

[Dijita]

Wow, 2 years of breaking everyday... now that is dedication. I have read so many great things about Mas Oyama. I wish that I had the oppurtunity to meet him.

[shuyun]

Wow, 2 years (hours friend hours) of breaking everyday... now that is dedication. I have read so many great things about Mas Oyama. I wish that I had the oppurtunity to meet him.

he further said that karate without tameshiwara (breaking) is a useless karate. and to think he was Korean to begin with.

[Dijita]

Oh yes, I meant hours, hehe. The hand was typing faster than the brain was thinking. :P

[Dijita]

Oh yes, I meant hours, hehe. The hand was typing faster than the brain was thinking. :P

[shuyun]

Oh yes, I meant hours, hehe. The hand was typing faster than the brain was thinking. :P

well that proves that you are a martial artist. we don't type. IT types on its own. nice to see you have a sense of humor.

[THE ETERNAL VOW]

i think it is true, most people with arthritis in later stages have to soak their hands in something warm to loosen the joints because cartiladge is lacking. My father met mas oyama back in the day on a few occasions and he said the guy taught alot of things to harshly and that u would get injured more from the useless stuff instead of fighting. my dad said he was hardcore though so that would explain the hours of breaking therefore leading to the hand arthritis.

[shuyun]

Boards dont hit back

Okay I’m typing in word first because my very long post got ditched some where in the internet.

Bruce Lee kept saying boards don’t hit back when asked about breaking boards. This was because in his day board breaking seemed to be what people looked for from martial artists when they claim to do Karate (the rave of the day). But make no mistake Bruce himself could break.

But as far as breaking goes today boards don’t hit back seem to be an apt saying. In olden times board breaking had a practical purpose, it served to measure striking power regarding material which they would practically encounter. The Karateka of the day were peasants and they had to contend with samurai and bandits and they wore armor. With that it was either put up or shut up. Those who decided to put up had to do something about their disadvantage and realized that when properly trained the human body could do amazing things.

But then if they practiced breaks like the way we do today (30 friggin seconds before we hit anything) it would have been useless. What good is a 10 stack break if you need a minute to focus? No mugger would give you a minute of sweet time. Now I guess when Oyama practiced his breaking for two hours a day I could only guess he meant to be able to use it at a moment’s notice.

I asked a friend who practices Goju Ryu and asked him for his most advanced block. He told me to punch, I gave a jab and he met my fist with his. I gave him a puzzled look and he gave me a smirk and then I gave him look and I realized his block was a breaking technique. It was done in the same spirit as FMA’s defanging the snake and JKDs stop-hit. That made me realize that true Karate blocks are meant as counter-offensive weapons not simply defensive measures. They are meant to hurt not just protect.

Another Karateka survived an attempted car-jacking in a parking lot after being threatened with a knife. In response to the threat he executed a side kick to the head and missed! But as he missed his foot struck the wall and the top layer of cement chipped. The mugger took one look at the knife and another look at the wall, he decided his knife was no match for that foot and ran away. Now that’s breaking for ya.

[Broadsword2004]

Well I don't like Mas Oyama because he would kill bulls and chop off their horns. How would you like it if you had horns and some person came and chopped them off with shutos. Sure, they're bulls, but animals have feelings too.

As for arthritis, that is ridiculous because he didn't know how to train right. There are plenty of Chinese martial artiss who can break very well that don't have hands like Mas Oyama had. And they don't have them because they followed the Chinese method which involved using healing herbs on your hands and gradually moving from punching sand to gravel to hard steel or brick.

The Mas Oyama method though was to start out punching brick or steel from the get-go. That toughens up your hands faster, but it builds ugly calluses and causes arthritis later.

My sensei told me back in the day when he started training, on the first day of training, you had to do like 50 rolls up and down on a hardwood floor for conditioning. He said he came in and watched this one guy leap head first over another guy, dive into the floor, and roll. He said he was awed at that. The thing is, though, yeah, 50 rolls up and down a hardwood floor will condition you alright, but you'll have back arthritis later on in life because of that, since you didn't use mats first. And he said a lot of those students indeed now do have back problems.

Mas Oyama was hardcore, but he was way too old-fashioned in his training. You want to train hard to be good, but train hard smartly. Even in Muay Thai, over in Thailand, they are extremely careful about how they treat their bodies. They avoid injuries as best as possible.

[EmptyneSs]

when mas used to train 14 hours a day in the mountains, he would punch rocks and trees and whatnot for hours. he killed a couple of those ragin bulls with 1 strike head on. has hands must have been messed up. hoever that shows

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Breakiing boards aren't training, they are a test
The waiting...man most of the time it is just show, and if not for show, it is because the test is near your limits, not can you break but how much can you break, doesn't have anything to do with fighting ability
A high or long jumper will do the same

[wardancer]

Hi all,

Just a small question: I'd heard that towards the end of his life Mas Oyama was suffering arthritis in his hands and that on winter morning's he had to soak his hands in warm water to ease the stiffness. Is this true or has someone heard anything similar??

Cheers,

Nazman

My shotokan instructor is around 55 years old.
Both hands are like Mas oyama knuckles.
The two big knuckles are joined due to years of makiwara.
It is 'freaky' like some deformity.
the knuckles have a skin as hard as the sole of feets that been walking barefoot for many years.
Now he does not suffer of arthritis as yet.
But you guys must remember, it is not only a knuckles condition exercise but also with such exercise you are conditioning the wrist, elbow, shoulder and spine from bare hand strikes impacts.
I have done such conditioning (my dad and later on wife used to be really upset about it) but I had never have to 'wrap' my hand (the way boxers do) and never had problem punching hard 'bags'.
It is not only an exercise aiming at breaking stuff but more aiming at the 'back' of the target. That is why a Karateka punch is different from a boxer: the boxer 'push' the bag while the Karateka aims at the back of the bag and strikes.
Conditioning your knuckles using a makiwara is a must if you want to do karate.
Imagine even boxers brake their hands (wrapped and gloved) during fight.
A karateka fight barehand making such exercise vital if you are planning to strike somebody with bare knuckle without getting hurt.
Ok, Makiwara training maybe after you reach 18 years old (your bones development) and around green belt is reasonable time to start.

[wardancer]

I am surprised.
Does any of the karatekas reading this forum do Makiwara training?