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  • #61
    Originally posted by Thai Bri
    It was Kwai Chang Caine that got me into martial arts also!

    As regards Karate, I do feel qualifired to slag it off. I studied for 5 years and got to 1st Kyu Brown Belt. But, in all honesty, why do you think someone has to become an expert in something before they call it shite?

    I mean, do you have to have a black belt 10th Dan in Line Dancing to know that is a crap fighting art too?
    .................................................................................................... ..........
    Well said Bri Thai, and i am sure many people can tell from your reply that you know the difference between real martial art/self defence and the ones that are as "fake" as the Iraqi war pictures in the daily Mirror.
    That being the case, there has to be some one who has an interest in the scam!
    Like for example a certain Peirs Morgan or more relevant in this case Wardancer!

    For your info war-prancer or should I say...Peirs Morgan-dancer,
    Yes I have tried a number of Ma, over many years and none of them impressed me one iota!
    Achieving various levels at various arts.
    But even if I were a black belt 3rd dan or a tag belt what difference would it have made!!!

    This is my point PEIRS morgan-dancer,
    I am, unlike you, not impressed by pretty belts!
    All the Stuff I had learnt was proved worthless when I started bjja and muay thai.
    YOUR INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT FUNDAMENTAL POINT SHOWS A WEAKNESS IN YOUR KNOWLEGE.

    As bri thai implies, if you know how to defend yourself, then you should know a bad martial art !

    The fact that you cant see that,
    Peirs Morgan-dancer, mplies that you are a..... Queen-of-Kata wardancer,
    you should accept it and move on.
    You should still know the difference between good and bad.
    from your questioning I think you fall into the category of ,
    "well I have wasted so many years getting my belts, I am not going to start admitting they are worthless now!"

    So you should do as the editor of the mirror did and Resign.
    from the "queen of kata - come-dancing club!"

    Bri thai Care for a fox trot!

    Comment


    • #62
      What do you hear?

      Comment


      • #63
        Well This war-prancer character "does protesteth too much me thinks", m'lud!

        The topic of this thread is quite clearly karate Kids!

        War-prancer, in simplistic terms, thats karate regarding kids!

        My gripe was with instructors that mis-lead kids,
        into believing they are learning a serious self-defence and that Kata plays an important role!

        When infact it is there just to pad out lessons with something thats pleasing on the untrained eye and also a good money spinner!

        So unless you are in this bracket than why are you so concerned?

        If you do not have a connection to the karate-kata-scandal,
        then surely you wouldnt give a castlemains xxxx

        unyet you do!

        Kids not quids(£££££'s/$$$$$$'s)!!!!!

        You're attempt to discredit people to try and validate your arguement was kids stuff, see you are a "karate-kid!"
        It was purely to divert attention away from the fact that you appear to display all the tendencies of a karate-kata-instructor.(past or present)????

        Stick to the topic, war-prancer!

        Anyone care to endulge in the "charlston?"

        No offense war-prancer!
        LOL

        Comment


        • #64
          Most my kid students were in the assumption that they were not allowed to use it on the streets, hence Karate can't be selfdefence

          Never promoted it as such nor do I think Kata are neccesary
          they are fun to do and for kids remembering them and being able to perform them gives them a sense of achievement

          TMA are fun to do sports, overhere they are presented like that so we do not belong to the catagory CHOKE UK mentioned

          What amazes me is that in a country like the US where gunpossesion is normal, so much people go for as selfdefence promoted classes
          A gun is much more effecient so why waste your time anyway ( even if it was practical and effective)
          As a sport, it doesn't matter if it is good SD or not just if it is fun

          Comment


          • #65
            the kids i teach learn both BJJ and Muay Thai, i found this thread pretty humorous. There are just safe ways to train, and unsafe methods. Most McDojo's aren't safe no matter what they offer, they just don't know how to keep the flow going without people getting hurt.


            for muay thai we do tons and tons of pad work and focus mitt drills... we also do timing sparring but won't let the kids do full on stand up sparring.... for pretty obvious reasons, and you're right, they dont' need that kind of pressure or competition at a young age.


            on the mat however, they love the BJJ. that's their favorite thing to do; roll around. They love playing the drill games like keeping someone in the guard, or just rolling and trying to work the technique. We've had our youth program up and running for almost a year, and besides the occasional scratch no one has gotten hurt amidst all the arm bars and chicken wings. some of them are really good, i've got a ten year old who can pick up anything, and he'll roll and pull off a chicken wing, fall back down into the guilotine and then do a half nelson situp to hip sweep. its really fun to watch and help them get into it.

            i also personally help the kids with their homework and self dicipline. for the ones who are really out of control i get them on a tai chi program and make them do additional work throughout the week to improve their charecter and promote seld development. it's all very safe and i've had numerous positive feedback from parents.


            the toughest thing i find in dealing with it is that kids aren't just satisfied with learning martial arts anymore. I remember growing up and punching and kicking was all i needed to be entertained. kids today seem like they want the technique AND they need four tvs and xbox's running in the background to get their attention.


            i'm just trying to give them something real and practical. I did have one kid defend himself recently and i guess he put on a pretty effective armbar, scared the kid and then did big brother and just sat on him until the teacher came. they were all happy though because this had been a kid that had been picked on to no end in the year prior.



            i think its a great sport for kids in the right atmosphere, too bad most parents run straight to the TKD gym on the corner and never give it another thought. anyway, sorry to rant, it's all in fun.



            my .25$ peace.
            joe

            Comment


            • #66
              BJJ definitely a great art for kids. They can control the level of violence, like that kid did by just mounting the person and keeping them there, or let loose with blows. I was kind of freaked out when you said he armbarred him, until I read on I thought he broke the person's arm. Besides that bjj is also good for a small kid, even if he did do boxing he probaly would still have a good chance of losing trading blows with a larger kid. They also would not be completely lost if a person started grappling with them.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by CKD
                even if he did do boxing he probaly would still have a good chance of losing trading blows with a larger kid. They also would not be completely lost if a person started grappling with them.
                You have to understand, young kids don't even punch when they get into fights. They just push each other around and maybe tackle a little. In fact, novice brawler kids are so bad at fighting it's hilarious.

                Comment


                • #68
                  I guess it depends on the age and were you live. Where I live it would not be just sloppy tackles, people would ussaully punch and then go into a clinch and then the ground. But ussually they had some kind of grab on the person beforehand. i grew up in a more urban enviroment so it might be a bit different than in the suburbs were kids do not fight often.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Toudy, what you say is correct.
                    If Karate is not portrayed as a self defence then great.
                    But over here it is portrayed a self-defence, even the kata is claimed to have self defence effect!

                    Tekshow, if only all scholls trained kids in the way you have described.

                    When I read your post it was "music to my eyes" or should I say "music to my eyes!"

                    Unlike so many, you understand what real self defence is about.

                    And If we are going to teacj kids then we had better make sure that we have already tried all the various arts and found out which work and which dont.

                    Thereby saving kids from having to spend years of making the same mistakes that many of us made, doing unrealistic arts.

                    kids cannot necessarily make a critical-judgement upon a particular martial art.
                    So no matter how poor it may be a child is not capable of establishing that fact.
                    that child grows to be an adult who has done it for too long to change his views,
                    and so will instruct in that fashion, and so the cycle-goes-on!
                    Training more kids who will grow up in denial and the teach it to more kids, who will grow up and teach it to more kids, who will grow up and....(get the picture yet?)
                    So get off the "cycle!"

                    But thank god there are people like Tekshow about ho do not fall into that category of the "great-karate-scandal!"

                    So Kids, Get off your "cycle", and "walk" to a class like tekshow!

                    Anyone care to dance the fox-trot?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by tekshow
                      the kids i teach learn both BJJ and Muay Thai, i found this thread pretty humorous. There are just safe ways to train, and unsafe methods. Most McDojo's aren't safe no matter what they offer, they just don't know how to keep the flow going without people getting hurt.


                      for muay thai we do tons and tons of pad work and focus mitt drills... we also do timing sparring but won't let the kids do full on stand up sparring.... for pretty obvious reasons, and you're right, they dont' need that kind of pressure or competition at a young age.


                      on the mat however, they love the BJJ. that's their favorite thing to do; roll around. They love playing the drill games like keeping someone in the guard, or just rolling and trying to work the technique. We've had our youth program up and running for almost a year, and besides the occasional scratch no one has gotten hurt amidst all the arm bars and chicken wings. some of them are really good, i've got a ten year old who can pick up anything, and he'll roll and pull off a chicken wing, fall back down into the guilotine and then do a half nelson situp to hip sweep. its really fun to watch and help them get into it.

                      i also personally help the kids with their homework and self dicipline. for the ones who are really out of control i get them on a tai chi program and make them do additional work throughout the week to improve their charecter and promote seld development. it's all very safe and i've had numerous positive feedback from parents.


                      the toughest thing i find in dealing with it is that kids aren't just satisfied with learning martial arts anymore. I remember growing up and punching and kicking was all i needed to be entertained. kids today seem like they want the technique AND they need four tvs and xbox's running in the background to get their attention.


                      i'm just trying to give them something real and practical. I did have one kid defend himself recently and i guess he put on a pretty effective armbar, scared the kid and then did big brother and just sat on him until the teacher came. they were all happy though because this had been a kid that had been picked on to no end in the year prior.



                      i think its a great sport for kids in the right atmosphere, too bad most parents run straight to the TKD gym on the corner and never give it another thought. anyway, sorry to rant, it's all in fun.



                      my .25$ peace.
                      joe
                      I have aways said the kids love the mat- I wish my kids had something like that where we live.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Yes I have found that too!

                        Kids take to a grappeling art more naturally than striking, I find!

                        My kids show a natural ability with it,
                        whereas the striking is not quite so natural.

                        I find they learn much faster with the jui jitsu than th MT.
                        With my kids training at MT, we have to work harder as i need to make quite frequent corrections and give them advice.
                        But with jj, i tell them once and thats it.
                        they even somehow learn things that i swear I have never taught them, but they somehow just seem to naturally know it!

                        They also enjoy it more.

                        Perhaps it is because it is a controlled art, in other words you can apply jui jitsu techniques without force, in other words gently, as the name jui jitsu originally suggested.

                        Example say an arm bar or choke can be applied and the victim decides when they have had enough and simply taps.

                        But say it is Mt and and roundhouse or left hook accidently connectes too hard, its too late to submit, the pain is still there!

                        So I find JJ the most natural, enjoyable and effective for kids.
                        But they must have MT striking skills as well.

                        And kids should save Kata for the disco!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          TOKYO, May 30, 2004 -- Kyokushin Karate fighters overwhelmed their K-1 opponents, winning all seven matchups in a unique fight event at the historic Budokan in central Tokyo. "Ichigeki" ("decisive strike") featured a K-1 vs Kyokushin format.

                          The Ichigeki card was divided into two parts -- four fights were fought under K-1 Rules, with some of K-1's best taking on elite Kyokushin fighters, and three matches were contested under Kyokushin Rules (judging is based on technique, the Kyokushin Rules also prohibit punches to the head.

                          2003 K-1 World GP Champion Remy Bonjasky squared off against 33 year-old Kyokushin (and K-1) legend Francisco Filho in the main event. Bonjasky had won eight in a row in K-1, a streak dating back to July 2003. But on this night, he came up against a very focused Filho. Aware his side had won six of six so far on the Ichigeki card, Filho was determined to complete the Kyokushin sweep. But few in the room could have anticipated the manner in which Filho would accomplish this incredible feat. He defeaded Bonjaski.

                          Reminded by a reporter that he has now beaten four K-1 Champions (Hug, Hoost, Aerts and Bonjasky), Filho said: "I was fortunate on the days I beat those excellent fighters, and if I go to the Tokyo Dome Final this year I hope I am fortunate there too, so that I can become the 2004 Champion!"

                          I told so...I told you so..LOL

                          Wardancer is having such a good time because he backs up his argument because this K1 tournament held in the Budokan (the mecca of any self-respected MA) prove that Karate works in K1. Kids and adults should learn Karate and that it is superior to Muy Thai.
                          I knew from the start I was correct, afterall a tree is tree.
                          For all the Karate haters, you are just a bunch of cry babies and quitters: stop blaming
                          Karate for your failures but yourselves.
                          I will give you the thread in case you interested to read but I doubt it because some of you are just in denial anyway.
                          The industry pioneer in UFC, Bellator and all things MMA (aka Ultimate Fighting). MMA news, interviews, pictures, videos and more since 1997.

                          LOL

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Thanks for the update on the one competition.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Thai Bri
                              Thanks for the update on the one competition.
                              Well that one competition is important, because it shows a school of karate that SERIOUSLY TRAINS FOR COMBAT.

                              I don't think Karate and TKD suck because their art sucks, I think they suck because most of their schools don't train for combat. (IE most TKD schools discourage full contact sparring, don't allow takedowns in sparring, etc.)

                              At my TKD school, for example, my instructor was also a Akido instructor and at some point he had his TKD students spar his akido students which took us down and mounted us and submitted us. Then he started to teach groundfighting, and for the black belt test one component was applying TKD striking plus grappling against an Akido black belt candidate who was also taught some anti-striking techniques. However, this was not a McDojo. My instructor definately lost a lot of students, and money, because he did not want to water his MA down to cater to the McDojo crowd. But I deeply respect him for keeping it real, so to speak.

                              Harcore MMA guys are funny. You cite a bunch of McDojos and how they suck, and compare them against a bunch of elite grapplers.

                              The main difference between teaching grappling and teaching striking is that in teach grappling, you KNOW if it works. (Who the hell is gonna teach wrestling w/o the wrestling?) On the other hand if you teach striking you don't have to strike people, you can strike objects like pads and bags. Seeing as how most striking schools are afraid of people getting hurt and sueing them, it's no wonder they suck, and the instructors who get black belts from their schools suck too, and it perpetuates into the McDojo phenomenon.

                              It's like that video of a muay thai fighter destroying a McDojo TKD redbelt, who doesn't even sidestep attacks.



                              From now on everyone instead of saying "XXX martial art sucks" should say "McDojo sucks". I mean you get the point across better that way, which is that generic schools catering to health and fitness do not produce good fighters.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by verc
                                Well that one competition is important, because it shows a school of karate that SERIOUSLY TRAINS FOR COMBAT..
                                K1 is the ultimate when it comes to striking only MMA event.
                                It proves that Karate do work in K1 format.
                                Too many Muy Thai stylist have been bragging too much without knowing that some K1 participants come from Karate. e.g Filho.
                                Leave your kids play at the Karate School especially if it is Kyokushin.
                                LOL...LOL...

                                Comment

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