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  • #16
    Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
    I think you hit on part of it. It was not meant for the masses.
    MA was for warriors. And It worked for warriors. It helped them deal with the stress associated with battle, It helped them to prepare by giving them responses to stimuli encountered in battle.

    Now look today. A class 50% children 40% housewifes 10% professional men. None of them want to get injuried in training or could afford it. Mothers do not like to see their children hit. Children often lack mental toughness. Professional men cannot take the chance of serious injury or even the amount of time required to be proficient. Now, overtime you can change these peoples attitudes and mental toughness. You can nurture and build the next generation of fighters. But this is done at young ages. Children do not do Martial arts to be effective, if you believe that you are delusional. They do it because they think it is fun. If some of them get hit in the first Year then they will no longer think it is fun.

    Today we take 1000's of people into our schools who would not even have been allowed to train if they wanted to 100 years ago. But we do so to keep our schools open while we look for that special group that does want to train for effectiveness. In 10 years I have found maybe 10 people who were dedicated enough and interested in training effectively. I have taught 100's of students, But I don't get to pick my students they pick me. So we work with what we have. Who in martial arts doesn't dream of having their own hardcore school where their people win at tournaments, are feared by criminals and thugs, and are making enough money to live comfortably hanging out with their students and working on improving themselves?

    MMA gets the tough guys that aren't afraid to get turned into a bloody mass, or have their arms busted up. The rest of the ma gets the kids and housewifes. Now where is the money? Sometimes you have to give them what they want so that you can get what you want in the end. A small group of well trained fighters to practice with.
    Amen to that! Good post!

    Please don't be offended by what I am about to say but I have put Martial arts into three categories:

    1) Traditional MAs- This are for kids who want to play games, fat farts who what to loose a few pounds and get in shape, and for the geritol nation who really don't want to learn to fight.
    2) Sport- Boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA
    3) Self-defense- People who truly want to learn to fight in practical unarmed combat, this category also includes combatives learning modern weapons and practical training.

    The two most closely related are the sport and the self-defense because both need mental, physical toughness, and willingness to get bloodied in training

    I am glad the TMAs are around though for the kids and people who don.t really want to learn to fight but have fun and get into shape.


    • #17
      my prior post continued...

      Heres some food for thought. I found this on an online dictionary site.


      Definition: [n] any of several Oriental arts of weaponless self-defense; usually practiced as a sport; "he had a black belt in the martial arts"


      • #18
        BTW, TMA does stand for True Martial Art, fight


        • #19
          Another bit on live training.

          Live training drills should be your main focus of training, not just something you do at the end of practice or once a month.

          I also forgot to put on the list partner drills. These are not live drills but work technique, timing and distancing. They must be able to translate well into live drills, and you donít need to spend a lot of time on them.

          I want to relate to you another great idea to add some realism in class.

          Once our instructor had a surprise quest come to our group. We were told to that we each were going to have to spar with him one on one privately. We were told to all go out into the hall and wait. One by one we were brought in.

          When it was my turn I walked ion and greeted our instructor who introduced me to his friend who I was going to be sparring or so I thought. As I reached out to shake his hand he immediately lunged with a knife thrust, and stabbed me and slashed me.

          Now of course he had a safety knife, but if it were real I would have been dead. My Immediate reaction was to move away but we were to close and he had the drop on me. So without thinking I grabbed for his knife arm (disarm). His initial thrust got me square in the palm of my hand, his next strike was a slash that went a cross my forearm. Then another thrust that hit me dead in the chest with enough force that it left a nasty bruise.

          One by one we all died, every last one of us failed to defend ourselves against the knife wielding quest. Now yes this was a surprise attack an ambush if you will and no matter what kind of training you have you can fall victim.

          So what did I learn from this? That self-defense can and is very unpredictable, and knife disarms donít work if you canít predict when or how the guy is going to attack. Anyway I think this is another great live action drill you can introduce to your students.

          These kind of drills really show you the difference between what you think you can do and what you actually can do.


          • #20
            What an excellent drill!

            Unpredictable + anxiety + surprise = REALISM.

            I will utilize this drill with my students.

            I do utilize a different drill where we free spar with our safety knives. We utilize multiple attackers at times and weather permitting we utilize different outdoor surroundings.

            It is a realty check to have someone attack you with a safety knife and also grab, kick, punch, all in none stop motion until the attacker feels they where effectively taken out.

            I also have a very good friend who makes frequent trips to Thailand. He very focused on realism and realistic knife training. I really like your drill. It adds so much more to the equation. We will utilize it in our next gathering.

            Thank you for sharing this with us.

            Ed Barton


            • #21
              oops, my bad


              • #22
                More on motor skills and self-defense.

                Gross motor skill- these involve the large muscle groups; movements are less precise, and less effected by stress/anxiety/adrenaline. Gross motor movements are those used in walking, running, bench pressing, jumping, and punching (jab, hooks, and etc).

                Fine motor skill- these involve intricate movements using small muscle groups, these are more precise and involve high levels of timing and hand eye coordination. Fine motor skills are those used in piano playing, painting a picture, circular movements such as curtain types of blocks, trapping, intricate foot movements, and precision targeting (such as targeting the eyes and throat).

                In some martial art like the ones we see in many TMAs use a lot of fine motor skill techniques and movements, and train them using closed skills sets and are internally paced. A closed skill is a skill that is practiced in a stable, predictable environment. Such as per-arranged sparring, defensive drills that rely on partner cooperation. Internally paced drills are those skills in which the performer controls the rate at which the skills are practiced like practicing skill sets at slow, or steady speeds.

                We also find these practices fixed or in other words the skill sets are practiced in a fixed fashion- repeated many times in the same way that does not require adapting to changing environments or conditions. Examples of this would be marching up and down the floor punch/kicking thin air, performing katas, pre-arranged or cooperative drills.

                What happens to a person trained in this way when presented with a dynamic, chaotic, or stressful environment?

                Effects of fear, anxiety, and adrenaline on motor skill

                What are some of the negative effects of fear/ adrenaline- Increased heart rates, increased sweat production, the shakes, auditory exclusion, blurred or tunnel vision, loss of awareness, decrease in judgment, and "Yellow fever" (sudden feeling of abject terror and helplessness), paralysis.

                According to Bruce Siddle on the lesser end of this spectrum there is often a loss of fine motor skill abilities such as finger dexterity, and hand eye coordination. On the more extreme end of the spectrum depending on the level of stimulus and the intrinsic reactions to the stimulus some people can loose all fine motor function.

                So now what?

                What ways of training are more efficient? First we need to make sure the techniques are based on gross motor movement. We need to train our techniques with their proper application in mind. Then we need to make sure that both the psychological and the physical aspects of the students are being met.

                Skill sets need to be trained in an open way meaning in a constantly changing environment where skills need to be continually adapted. In a street situation we donít always have the luxury of controlling all aspects of the fight such as pace, speed, and etc. So we need to use externally paced training methods or in other words to be act/react to external forces and controls in a dynamic environment.

                Development of individual techniques though partner drills and bag/pad work, then progressing to live drills, these are drills that are dynamic and unpredictable. This forces the student to adapt to changes in rhythm, speed, timing, and other environmental stimulus. Thus building confidence and individual style.

                The Dís big four:

                1) Mental/psychological- Positive winning attitude and combat mindset through High intensity drills, Operant conditioning, realism in training to include realistic and plausible scenario training.

                2) Physical- Improvement of strength and conditioning, using contact as a means of getting over flinching or fear of being hit, and desensitization to pain.

                3) Attributes- Developing skills, and athletic prowess. Increasing punching power, and hand/foot speed. Improving flexibility, and balance. Developing natural talents and abilities so the student can find his own style of fighting that allows him to use his strengths to his advantage and effectiveness.

                4) Techniques- Gross motor skilled, simple, and direct. Techniques need to be easy to learn, retain, and use, or in other words user friendly even in a chaotic, stressful environment.


                • #23
                  Worth reading again?

                  Finding the archives more interesting lately...



                  • #24
                    I kinda miss Darrianation's contributions.


                    • #25
                      He's another one of those lone Ranger types... Leaving us to wonder "Who was that masked man?"


                      • #26
                        No doubt the forum is a better place thanks to his insights and contributions. Do you think it is unreasonable to hope he may return one day? In a moment of crises or desperate request. Can we count on him to save the day? Sadly I wonder. There really is no such thing as the lone ranger to the rescue these days. We must all be our own hero. He gave us lots of food for thought, not unlike another hero among us. (I won't name names...)

                        Food is good.