so,many of you think Aikido is no use for 'real world' app', eh?, hmm

[VTGreg]

Hi Husanyan, was there a point to your mocking my post? Are you going to be constructive in your criticism, or just be funny? Why not contribute to the discussion??

[Aikiguy]

what an unfriendly Troll with a capital T

Yeah, this thread sorta deflated fast.

[HuSanYan]

Hi Husanyan, was there a point to your mocking my post? Are you going to be constructive in your criticism, or just be funny? Why not contribute to the discussion??

VTGreg good post mate. That'll teach me!

[HuSanYan]

Yeah, this thread sorta deflated fast.

they often do, I guess its a fact of life these days

[HtTKar]

A man "keenly interested in hearing others opinions" about Aikido, and presenting that question in a condescending manner cant even offer any input on his own ideas about the subject? Then why did you think starting the thread was worthwhile? Gosh, sometimes I wish Chuck Norris would just slap you silly.

Why devote time to learning Aiki-Jutsu soley, when it is easily cross-trained into more effective martial arts?

[darrianation]

I cannot buy into anything that relies on precise timing, intricate footwork, laser targeting, or perfect execution to make it work, nor do I think highly of any system that takes a long period of time to get the average student (the ones without superhuman attributes) to a point where they can be proficient and effective in the majority of situations.

I believe stress, fear, and adrenaline play a major roll on what a person can do. When in a heightened emotional state things like timing, precision, fine motor skills are generally not optimal. Things that work in the dojo often can be complete disasters in the street.

I believe mindset is the first key to survival. You need to out thug the thug. Aikido from what I have seen does not teach this mindset. Also, the second key is an aggressive preemptive attack or a strong violent counter offensive using simple techniques with universal application. Anything else and your just playing patty cake.

Aikido to me is something you do with someone not something you do to someone. I believe this philosophy can get you killed when the real bubba comes along.

[darrianation]

I am sorry to write a second post so soon but I have been thinking about this kind of stuff a lot lately. So many people ask the question why is that style better or why do people think that TMAs are so ineffective? My answer is somewhat lengthy but I think it covers the majority of the mess.

Simplicity is snubbed by many Traditional martial systems. They say hey, anyone can do that, or that’s how my 6 year old fights and their put off. To me it’s a bit elitist. They rather talk sophisticated theory and techniques. They talk in advanced versus beginner techniques and the more advanced the technique is the more effective it must be. They pat themselves on the back for their genius. They like their tidy sophisticated packages and think things have to have a certain order, flair, maturity, and civility to them.

Many systems techniques work because the environment, drills, and attacks are designed to make them work. Meaning “If you come at me with a knife I can perform blank disarm”. The problem is this; in “real combat” a large percentage of stabbing victims never saw the knife that stabbed them. Many didn’t even know they were stabbed until it was over. The truth is often “real” street thugs will not attack act or react the way you assume they will, they are often tougher (physically and mentally) than you think, and fight more ferociously than you were told they would be in the dojo, and yes they will employ dirty, nasty, and unfair tricks.

The dojo is a safe and secure environment and you do not have the same psycho-physiological responses you will have to work through in the street, nor will you have many or varied surprises. You usually know your classmates and partners, how they fight how they attack, and what you’re supposed to do when Joe does that move. So things tend to work in the dojo

This also holds true when faced with trickery and deception. If you lead an experienced martial artist to believe you are going to do one thing then you do another and his defense fails he cries foul “Hey you cheated”, “It would have worked if you did the proper attack like you were supposed too”. Remember a true street thug will use deceit, trickery, and deception. He will attack when the time and circumstances are right for him when he has the upper hand.

Many systems develop monkeys that only push the buttons. What I mean by this is during a simulated attack the student fails, well he works it until he is successful, sooner or later he will get it right. But when you change the known constants or throw in new variables into the equation the student is right back where he started. Instead of learning how to logically work through the problem to come up with practical and workable solutions to the problem that truly exists he just keeps on doing the same formula that caused him to fail the last time.

Styles dictate that techniques need be solely pure, they need to look Shotokan or that a certain strike needs to be authentically wing chun, or that’s not the Aikido way. They say look this way, chin here, eyes looking there, foot pointed that way, hand facing this direction and orientated in that direction blah, blah… It seems that techniques, stances, and foot work have to be done a certain way and look a certain way. In the end it seems to me anyway they care more about how the technique looks than how it works. Now, they may say otherwise with their lips but their actions show differently.

To me you need to teach simple to learn easy to retain techniques that can be quickly assimilated to neuro-muscle memory and can be applied under less than desirable circumstances, like when confronted suddenly and violently by a couple guys waiting behind a door who are determined and capable of taking your head off, or in other words when your stress and adrenal levels are at their highest. I am not talking about loud mouthed obnoxious drunks at Aunt Suzy’s wedding reception.

These techniques and tactics have to be proven personally and individually to each student for themselves under live action high intensity drills that are not choreographed, predictable, or gamed so they can develop true confidence in their own abilities and not a false sense of security.

They need to learn how they can best make things work even if that means individual modifications to tactics or techniques. Basically the teacher’s job is to provide the proper stimulus for growth, teach practical and sound techniques, strategies, and tactics, then provides the students with guidance, advice, alternate methods if need be, and an environment that the students can experiment, succeed or fail, and prove what works and what doesn’t so they can devise their own personal style of fighting that best suites their talents and attributes as individuals, not as a collective.

Most training in the world of martial arts is based on a model of unrealistic expectations and impractical assumptions that is doomed to failure for all but the elite among them.

[HuSanYan]

darrianation, 2 of the best posts i have seen, word for word makes perfect sense.

[BJJ-2/04]

My opinion, when two fighters clinch, as in most street fights, Aikido can be a very effective MA for street defense. Aikido does take some training time before it can be properly utilized effectively. The techniques are not as easy to grasp quickly in compared to other MAs. It also takes a naturally talented person with some coordination and timing.

[VTGreg]

very nice darrianation!

[Thai Bri]

My opinion, when two fighters clinch, as in most street fights, Aikido can be a very effective MA for street defense. Aikido does take some training time before it can be properly utilized effectively. The techniques are not as easy to grasp quickly in compared to other MAs. It also takes a naturally talented person with some coordination and timing.

Aikido has nothing in the clinch, unless your version of a "clinch" is one man gently holding another by the wrist.

[straitup]

hi steve

I learned in most of these post that are on here that you need not take what is being said to heart. I've found that even if you know what your talking about, especially if you have used your art for many street fights with grait success most of the people on here don't have the understanding them selfs. I personally think that Akido is a verry efective art for the street. The problem with most people is that they want a bb with in two years and they don't want to earn it. Akido like all Martial Arts if learned properly takes time. People now a days want the status to call them selfs a bb rather then know how to properly use and aply there art what ever it might be. It's sad that we have taken the knowledge that is offered to us and not appreciate it.

[Thai Bri]

Tell us about some of these fights, oh great one.

[straitup]

why, what would be purpose that?

[HuSanYan]

why, what would be purpose that?

where are these newbie Trolls coming from??