Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

dont waste your time with karate

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • dont waste your time with karate

    ive studied kyokushin and wado kai karate and was sadly disappointed in its poor excuse for self defense. kyokushin was very brutal but ineffective in the street .its knock down fighting style wasnt bad except for no punching to the head. not very realistic. wado was very effecient as far as bodyshifting but i have to wonder how these pioneers ever thought this stuff would be useful in a street fight(lots of opium). my wado instructor was a 5th degree and would get his ass handed to him by any competent street brawler. i think karate is excellent for kids as it can build character but for street self defense it will get your ass booted. if you dont beleive me go ahead and try it out for yourself. i warned you. things like progressive fighting systems are excellent for street effeciency.

  • #2
    Originally posted by one who seeks
    i think karate is excellent for kids as it can build character but for street self defense it will get your ass booted.
    Go tell that to Mas Oyama. And studying an effective style won't help a man who can't fight all that well in the first place anyways.

    Comment


    • #3
      mas oyama was awesome

      Comment


      • #4
        On a mission One Who Seeks?

        Comment


        • #5
          yup

          mas oyama was a skilled knock down tournament fighter.breaking his opponents arms with his blocks. 100 man kumites werent a problem for him, however, oyama wasnt a street fighter. most karateka dont have superfast hands like a boxer. and kyokushinai dont punch to the head in there sparring or tournaments. oyama brutalized his body ,especially his hands. he was breaking boards every day until the latest years of his life resulting in loss of use before he died. for me martial arts is about self preservation and expression . not destuction of self. sorry just my opinion.

          Comment


          • #6
            For most point tournments Below blackbelt they have stopped punching to the face. At blackbelt they allow it.. BUT point spar does not train towards streets. So you can not compare that difference. Any art has tools The person has to train them develop there needs. And learn from there. Just as a boxer has to develop there tools then test them. I do not agree with todays methods. But then you look at how easy some people will sue over little things. So points have changed for protection both ways. Contact or light contact. You know before hand you will get hit. But remember its what you can do that counts. Train towards your needs. And remember The M/A is more then just fighting. A street fight is because you have to fight. NOT that you pick the fight.
            Last edited by robertlee; 02-26-2005, 06:06 PM. Reason: spelling

            Comment


            • #7
              mas oyama was a skilled knock down tournament fighter.breaking his opponents arms with his blocks. 100 man kumites werent a problem for him, however, oyama wasnt a street fighter.
              Your claims are rediculous. You say he's not a street fighter because what? Any man that can finish 100 man kumites, and break opponents arms with a block is going to be a great streetfighter. Remember, Oyama wasn't a streetfighter because he had better things to do, and its not like he never got in a streetfight anyways. You're giving street-brawler types way too much credit. They're only people too. Yes some people are better fighters than others. Regardless, these guys would still be tough if they took karate.
              How do you know they had no martial arts experience anyway? How bad has PFS made you anyway?

              Comment


              • #8
                kyokushin was very brutal but ineffective in the street
                How did you come to this conclusion?

                if you dont beleive me go ahead and try it out for yourself. i warned you.
                Thanks for the warning. Im sure karate-ka all over the world are hanging up their gi's because you, the self-proclamed expert on all things "street effective", thinks that karate is a good way to get your "ass booted".

                Believe me, we have heard it all before.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mas Oyama would destroy any "street brawler"!!!

                  (Mas) Oyama, founder of kyokushin karate, may be the toughest martial artist of all time.


                  Oyama, was born Yong-I Choi, on July 27, 1923, in the tiny village of Wa-Ryongri Yong-chi Myonchul Na Do, in Southern Korea. His family, considered aristocrats, belonged to the Yangban-clan. His father, Sun Hyang, was the mayor of Kinje, a town near the village where Yong-I Choi was born. As a young child, nine years of age, Oyama began studying Southern Chinese Kempo under the instruction of Mr. Yi, an employee on the estate owned by Oyama's father. Oyama was also an avid reader and was deeply affected and moved after reading the biography of Otto von Bismark (1815-1898) the Prussian Chancellor (1871-1890) of the German empire. Bismark, Oyama read, was instrumental in unifying Germany in a span of only two to three years, making it a nation powerful enough to control most of Europe.



                  The philosophy of Bismark made such a strong impression on Oyama that he decided he wanted to be the Bismark of the Orient. With great aspirations Oyama somehow felt his destiny was in Japan and he left Korea at the age of fifteen. It was at this time in Japan the young Choi changed his name. He adopted the name Oyama from the family that befriended him and took him in, while in Japan.
                  In 1938, at the young age of fifteen, Oyama wanted to serve the country he now called home and therefore joined Japan's Yamanashi Youth Air Force Academy with the intentions of becoming a pilot. In September of this same year, Oyama became a student of Gichin Funakoshi, Shotokan Karate founder, at the Takushoku University. Funakoshi, a school teacher from Okinawa, was credited with introducing karate to Japan. It is this man that Oyama later would refer to as his true karate teacher. Throughout the years Oyama always spoke highly of Funakoshi, remarking in later recollections of his gentle yet overwhelming presence. Oyama went on to say that of the many things he learned from Funakoshi, kata (formal exercises) was the most important.

                  By the age of eighteen, Oyama had earned the rank of nidan in karate (second level black) rank. Oyama was still very much a patriot and was always volunteering for special military duty. On one assignment to an airfield near Tokyo, a confrontation provoked by an officer, resulted in Oyama striking the officer. Although found innocent, due to the provocation on the part of the officer, Oyama was ordered transferred to an area in the Pacific. However, the war was just ending and lucky for Oyama, the transfer was halted. But this luck had an ironic twist for Oyama because it also meant that his driving quest to serve his new country was now over. The announcement that Japan had surrendered WWII quickly ended Oyama’s military career. The stress of losing his career and the dishonor he felt for his adopted country losing the war created great - almost unbearable - stress in Oyama’s life.

                  Oyama found someone Korean like himself by the name of Nei-Chu So. Not only was So Korean but he was also from the same province. Nei-Chi So was a practitioner of the Gojo-Ryu style of karate. Gogen Yamaguchi, nicknamed "The Cat", was carrying on goju-ryu, founded by Chojun Miyagi in 1930 in Japan. Yamaguchi commonly acknowledged that Nei-Chu So was one of his best students. Oyama quickly resumed his martial arts training under So and a strong bond was formed between the two. So, a great philosopher and strong in character, possessed even stronger spiritual convictions. Oyama would not only learn Goju-ryu from So, but would also be sanctified by him into the Buddhist faith of the Nichiren sect. It was So who inspired Oyama to make karate his life long dedication, propelling him to face his own challenges and develop his own achievements and victories. At the same time he began his training with So, Oyama earnestly took-up the practice of Judo as well. After four years of training, he received his yondan (fourth level black) ranking in Judo.

                  Oyama liked to attend the local dance competitions in the area in order to socialize and relax after his martial arts training. It was at one such dance event that Oyama came to the aid of a female who was being accosted by a local troublemaker. When Oyama intervened, the troublemaker, a tall Japanese suspected of several homicides, became enraged and produced a knife. Taunting Oyama, the troublemaker made continuous slashing movements through the air in front of Oyama’s face with the knife then lunged towards Oyama. Oyama blocked the attack and delivered a forceful punch to the head of the assailant, killing him instantly. Because of eyewitness accounts of the incident, Oyama was ruled by the courts as justified in using self-defense. However, the impact of the tragedy devastated Oyama. To kill a man with a single blow was so overwhelming to Oyama that he decided to give up his martial arts training. Learning that the man he killed had a wife and children on a farm in the Kanto area near Tokyo, Oyama went to the farm and worked there for several months. He did not leave until the widow assured him that she was financially capable of maintaining the farm and that she did not hold Oyama responsible for the death of her husband.

                  This became the turning point in Oyama’s life. His Goju-ryu instructor, Nei-Chu So advised him to go away, to train his body and soul and to give karate a chance to control his life. Oyama, lacking direction and a goal wondered if karate was a realistic goal. Would karate training give him the much-needed control of his physical strength as well as mental discipline? If karate would provide these traits, then he would have to give himself completely to the training. He realized it would be a long, hard journey. He was determined to succeed on this quest.
                  In 1948 Mas Oyama, taking with him only his books and the basic necessities for cooking, began an arduous training regimen atop Mt. Minobu in Chiba Prefecture. Mt. Minobu is the same place where the famous seventeenth century samurai, Miyamoto Musashi, received inspiration for Nito Ryu, his celebrated double sword system. To Oyama, this was the ideal place to train and be inspired in the same tradition as his idol, Musashi. Of the books Oyama took with him on this journey, none were more important than the collection on Musashi, by Yoshikawa. For eighteen months, isolated in the mountains, Oyama tested himself against nature’s elements with such scenarios as training and meditating under icy waterfalls, performing countless jumps over bushes and boulders and using trees and rocks as makiwaras (striking aide, see photo below) to condition his hands, feet and legs.

                  He would begin training at five in the morning, running up the steep slopes. Using large rocks as weights, he would lift them hundreds of times to increase his strength. In addition, he performed kata a minimum of one hundred times each day as well as hundreds upon thousands of repetitions of kihons (basic techniques), continuously pushing himself to the limits of human endurance. At the conclusion of his daily training, he would read various Buddhist writings and sit in zazen and meditate. It was also at this time that Oyama began to contemplate the idea of the circle and point for his karate. He also began visualizing himself defeating a bull with his bare hands. If he could get strong enough and powerful enough that he was able to defeat a bull with his karate, he would become famous. But it wasn’t fame he was after. The fame, he thought, would be a tool. If he could attract interest from others, he could enlighten them on the strengths and virtues of karate and he would succeed not only in his goal of mastering karate, but of instructing others in the way of karate as well.


                  After eighteen months of solitude, Oyama returned from the mountains. Shortly after his return from the mountain training, the first karate tournament since the end of World War II, was held in Japan. Oyama competed in this All Japan Karate Tournament held at the Maruyama Kaikan in Kyoto and emerged victorious - the tournament’s first champion. But Oyama was an intense young man and still was not satisfied with his achievement. He still felt that something was lacking in his martial arts and that he had not truly reached his full potential. Oyama returned to the mountains for another year of gruelling fourteen-hour training days. To this day, there is no other person who has undertaken such a training regimen within the martial arts. After this final isolation and training period, Oyama returned to civilization ready to apply all that he had learned. It was at this time Oyama decided to apply his karate expertise in a life and death battle - a conflict that would set man against beast.
                  Mas Oyama, in order to show the strength of his karate, tested his strength by fighting raging bulls bare-handed. It was a mismatch from the get-go for the bulls, not for Oyama. In all, he fought 52 bulls, three of which were killed instantly, and 49 had their horns taken off with knife hand blows. That it is not to say that it was all that easy for him. Oyama was fond of remembering that his first attempt just resulted in an angry bull. In 1957, at the age of 34, he was nearly killed in Mexico when a bull got some of his own back and gored him. Oyama somehow managed to pull the bull off and break off his horn. He was bedridden for 6 months while he recovered from the usually fatal wound. Today of course, the animal rights groups would have something to say about these demonstrations, despite the fact that the animals were all destined for slaughter.
                  In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national television. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it.
                  If he hit you, you broke. If you blocked a rib punch, you arm was broken or dislocated. If you didn't block, your rib was broken. He became known as the Godhand, a living manifestation of the Japanese warriors' maxim Ichi geki, Hissatsu or "One strike, certain death". To him, this was the true aim of technique in karate. The fancy footwork and intricate techniques were secondary (though he was also known for the power of his head kicks).


                  These life and death struggles brought notoriety to Oyama. Oyama used this notoriety to help establish his Kyokushin organization. Oyama's reputation grew with each bullfight and each challenge match, as he defeated wrestlers, boxers and judo stylists alike in no-holds-barred bouts. He was an equal-opportunity fighter, taking on any man from any combat system who wished to challenge him. For nearly fifty years, fifteen million plus members of Oyama's worldwide Kyokushin Karate organization witnessed this man's incredible feats. Whether from the power of his strikes, the strength of his handshake, his remarkable teachings or through the teachings of the instructors and branch chiefs that Oyama produced, everyone associated with him knew that this esoteric name was not inappropriate.
                  Oyama was a living legend until he passed away April 26, 1994, at the age of 71. He could fight and defeat a bull or another man with little problem; they were tangible opponents that appeared before him. But lung cancer was a hidden enemy, sneaking around inside Oyama's body and tearing it asunder day by day. He couldn't beat the disease with his fists or his feet. Nor could he devise a strategy to ward it off. For years, the cancer ate away at his insides without him even knowing it was there.
                  His death was met with sadness in not only kyokushin circles, but the rest of the martial arts community as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think just a link and the paragraph would have sufficed. But yeah, "one who seeks", doesnt have a clue of what he's talking about.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      yes that was probally a little much

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What someone else can or did do. speaks only for that person. You are what counts. What you learn what you can do. Others may help guide you. But in the end its you. The old saying what you put into something is what you get out of it. That holds true. That is why art or style means little and the person means it all. Few people push there self harder then others to achive a higher goal. The M/A is life as you live it. and if having to fight or ring fighting you do your best. But you live your life. NO STYLE just your way in the end

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by one who seeks
                          mas oyama was a skilled knock down tournament fighter.breaking his opponents arms with his blocks. 100 man kumites werent a problem for him, however, oyama wasnt a street fighter.
                          So because he only did 100 man kumites, he couldn't handle one or two drunk douchebags at a bar?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by academian
                            (Mas) Oyama, founder of kyokushin karate, may be the toughest martial artist of all time.


                            Oyama, was born Yong-I Choi, on July 27, 1923, in the tiny village of Wa-Ryongri Yong-chi Myonchul Na Do, in Southern Korea. His family, considered aristocrats, belonged to the Yangban-clan. His father, Sun Hyang, was the mayor of Kinje, a town near the village where Yong-I Choi was born. As a young child, nine years of age, Oyama began studying Southern Chinese Kempo under the instruction of Mr. Yi, an employee on the estate owned by Oyama's father. Oyama was also an avid reader and was deeply affected and moved after reading the biography of Otto von Bismark (1815-1898) the Prussian Chancellor (1871-1890) of the German empire. Bismark, Oyama read, was instrumental in unifying Germany in a span of only two to three years, making it a nation powerful enough to control most of Europe.



                            The philosophy of Bismark made such a strong impression on Oyama that he decided he wanted to be the Bismark of the Orient. With great aspirations Oyama somehow felt his destiny was in Japan and he left Korea at the age of fifteen. It was at this time in Japan the young Choi changed his name. He adopted the name Oyama from the family that befriended him and took him in, while in Japan.
                            In 1938, at the young age of fifteen, Oyama wanted to serve the country he now called home and therefore joined Japan's Yamanashi Youth Air Force Academy with the intentions of becoming a pilot. In September of this same year, Oyama became a student of Gichin Funakoshi, Shotokan Karate founder, at the Takushoku University. Funakoshi, a school teacher from Okinawa, was credited with introducing karate to Japan. It is this man that Oyama later would refer to as his true karate teacher. Throughout the years Oyama always spoke highly of Funakoshi, remarking in later recollections of his gentle yet overwhelming presence. Oyama went on to say that of the many things he learned from Funakoshi, kata (formal exercises) was the most important.

                            By the age of eighteen, Oyama had earned the rank of nidan in karate (second level black) rank. Oyama was still very much a patriot and was always volunteering for special military duty. On one assignment to an airfield near Tokyo, a confrontation provoked by an officer, resulted in Oyama striking the officer. Although found innocent, due to the provocation on the part of the officer, Oyama was ordered transferred to an area in the Pacific. However, the war was just ending and lucky for Oyama, the transfer was halted. But this luck had an ironic twist for Oyama because it also meant that his driving quest to serve his new country was now over. The announcement that Japan had surrendered WWII quickly ended Oyama’s military career. The stress of losing his career and the dishonor he felt for his adopted country losing the war created great - almost unbearable - stress in Oyama’s life.

                            Oyama found someone Korean like himself by the name of Nei-Chu So. Not only was So Korean but he was also from the same province. Nei-Chi So was a practitioner of the Gojo-Ryu style of karate. Gogen Yamaguchi, nicknamed "The Cat", was carrying on goju-ryu, founded by Chojun Miyagi in 1930 in Japan. Yamaguchi commonly acknowledged that Nei-Chu So was one of his best students. Oyama quickly resumed his martial arts training under So and a strong bond was formed between the two. So, a great philosopher and strong in character, possessed even stronger spiritual convictions. Oyama would not only learn Goju-ryu from So, but would also be sanctified by him into the Buddhist faith of the Nichiren sect. It was So who inspired Oyama to make karate his life long dedication, propelling him to face his own challenges and develop his own achievements and victories. At the same time he began his training with So, Oyama earnestly took-up the practice of Judo as well. After four years of training, he received his yondan (fourth level black) ranking in Judo.

                            Oyama liked to attend the local dance competitions in the area in order to socialize and relax after his martial arts training. It was at one such dance event that Oyama came to the aid of a female who was being accosted by a local troublemaker. When Oyama intervened, the troublemaker, a tall Japanese suspected of several homicides, became enraged and produced a knife. Taunting Oyama, the troublemaker made continuous slashing movements through the air in front of Oyama’s face with the knife then lunged towards Oyama. Oyama blocked the attack and delivered a forceful punch to the head of the assailant, killing him instantly. Because of eyewitness accounts of the incident, Oyama was ruled by the courts as justified in using self-defense. However, the impact of the tragedy devastated Oyama. To kill a man with a single blow was so overwhelming to Oyama that he decided to give up his martial arts training. Learning that the man he killed had a wife and children on a farm in the Kanto area near Tokyo, Oyama went to the farm and worked there for several months. He did not leave until the widow assured him that she was financially capable of maintaining the farm and that she did not hold Oyama responsible for the death of her husband.

                            This became the turning point in Oyama’s life. His Goju-ryu instructor, Nei-Chu So advised him to go away, to train his body and soul and to give karate a chance to control his life. Oyama, lacking direction and a goal wondered if karate was a realistic goal. Would karate training give him the much-needed control of his physical strength as well as mental discipline? If karate would provide these traits, then he would have to give himself completely to the training. He realized it would be a long, hard journey. He was determined to succeed on this quest.
                            In 1948 Mas Oyama, taking with him only his books and the basic necessities for cooking, began an arduous training regimen atop Mt. Minobu in Chiba Prefecture. Mt. Minobu is the same place where the famous seventeenth century samurai, Miyamoto Musashi, received inspiration for Nito Ryu, his celebrated double sword system. To Oyama, this was the ideal place to train and be inspired in the same tradition as his idol, Musashi. Of the books Oyama took with him on this journey, none were more important than the collection on Musashi, by Yoshikawa. For eighteen months, isolated in the mountains, Oyama tested himself against nature’s elements with such scenarios as training and meditating under icy waterfalls, performing countless jumps over bushes and boulders and using trees and rocks as makiwaras (striking aide, see photo below) to condition his hands, feet and legs.

                            He would begin training at five in the morning, running up the steep slopes. Using large rocks as weights, he would lift them hundreds of times to increase his strength. In addition, he performed kata a minimum of one hundred times each day as well as hundreds upon thousands of repetitions of kihons (basic techniques), continuously pushing himself to the limits of human endurance. At the conclusion of his daily training, he would read various Buddhist writings and sit in zazen and meditate. It was also at this time that Oyama began to contemplate the idea of the circle and point for his karate. He also began visualizing himself defeating a bull with his bare hands. If he could get strong enough and powerful enough that he was able to defeat a bull with his karate, he would become famous. But it wasn’t fame he was after. The fame, he thought, would be a tool. If he could attract interest from others, he could enlighten them on the strengths and virtues of karate and he would succeed not only in his goal of mastering karate, but of instructing others in the way of karate as well.


                            After eighteen months of solitude, Oyama returned from the mountains. Shortly after his return from the mountain training, the first karate tournament since the end of World War II, was held in Japan. Oyama competed in this All Japan Karate Tournament held at the Maruyama Kaikan in Kyoto and emerged victorious - the tournament’s first champion. But Oyama was an intense young man and still was not satisfied with his achievement. He still felt that something was lacking in his martial arts and that he had not truly reached his full potential. Oyama returned to the mountains for another year of gruelling fourteen-hour training days. To this day, there is no other person who has undertaken such a training regimen within the martial arts. After this final isolation and training period, Oyama returned to civilization ready to apply all that he had learned. It was at this time Oyama decided to apply his karate expertise in a life and death battle - a conflict that would set man against beast.
                            Mas Oyama, in order to show the strength of his karate, tested his strength by fighting raging bulls bare-handed. It was a mismatch from the get-go for the bulls, not for Oyama. In all, he fought 52 bulls, three of which were killed instantly, and 49 had their horns taken off with knife hand blows. That it is not to say that it was all that easy for him. Oyama was fond of remembering that his first attempt just resulted in an angry bull. In 1957, at the age of 34, he was nearly killed in Mexico when a bull got some of his own back and gored him. Oyama somehow managed to pull the bull off and break off his horn. He was bedridden for 6 months while he recovered from the usually fatal wound. Today of course, the animal rights groups would have something to say about these demonstrations, despite the fact that the animals were all destined for slaughter.
                            In 1952, he travelled the United States for a year, demonstrating his karate live and on national television. During subsequent years, he took on all challengers, resulting in fights with 270 different people. The vast majority of these were defeated with one punch! A fight never lasted more than three minutes, and most rarely lasted more than a few seconds. His fighting principle was simple — if he got through to you, that was it.
                            If he hit you, you broke. If you blocked a rib punch, you arm was broken or dislocated. If you didn't block, your rib was broken. He became known as the Godhand, a living manifestation of the Japanese warriors' maxim Ichi geki, Hissatsu or "One strike, certain death". To him, this was the true aim of technique in karate. The fancy footwork and intricate techniques were secondary (though he was also known for the power of his head kicks).


                            These life and death struggles brought notoriety to Oyama. Oyama used this notoriety to help establish his Kyokushin organization. Oyama's reputation grew with each bullfight and each challenge match, as he defeated wrestlers, boxers and judo stylists alike in no-holds-barred bouts. He was an equal-opportunity fighter, taking on any man from any combat system who wished to challenge him. For nearly fifty years, fifteen million plus members of Oyama's worldwide Kyokushin Karate organization witnessed this man's incredible feats. Whether from the power of his strikes, the strength of his handshake, his remarkable teachings or through the teachings of the instructors and branch chiefs that Oyama produced, everyone associated with him knew that this esoteric name was not inappropriate.
                            Oyama was a living legend until he passed away April 26, 1994, at the age of 71. He could fight and defeat a bull or another man with little problem; they were tangible opponents that appeared before him. But lung cancer was a hidden enemy, sneaking around inside Oyama's body and tearing it asunder day by day. He couldn't beat the disease with his fists or his feet. Nor could he devise a strategy to ward it off. For years, the cancer ate away at his insides without him even knowing it was there.
                            His death was met with sadness in not only kyokushin circles, but the rest of the martial arts community as well.
                            This is perhaps one of the most in-depth biographies I've read on Oyama on any website...even those devoted to him....still, I can't help but notice the thing about the German literature...
                            Now I'm never going to think about Oyama von Bizmark the same....I mean...way to read between the lines!
                            Oyama was the man. Certainly one of the toughest individuals of the past few centuries...and perhaps the greatest fighter of his generation.
                            (God...could you imagine him training with Bruce Lee and/or Helio Gracie...what would the world have been like?! Ah...only in dreams....)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "In Karate there is no First Strike"
                              In Kenpo it is reversed:
                              In Kenpo there should be no Second Strike.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X