olympic grappler match

[GREENTHINKS]

How In The Hell Can Anyone Think That Wrestling Has The Upper Hand? I Mean How Does That Make Any Sense At All? I Truely Am Mystified?????

A Young Women That Is Competitive In Wrestling With Men Because She Has More Skills. I Think Its A Very Good Example Of Judo's Superiority.it Adds To The Skills It Is More Not Less. And What Exactly Is This Distinction Between Judo And Wrestling Anyway?

It Is The Same Thing I.e. Using The Human Body. Judo Allows More Gripping Opportunities Because Of The Cloth. Pretty Simple Concept Isn't It ? What Am I Missing Here ?

Please Explain.

[Tom Yum]

A Young Women That Is Competitive In Wrestling With Men Because She Has More Skills. I Think Its A Very Good Example Of Judo's Superiority.

If you are a high-ranked and competitive judoka, then switch over to wrestling you will probably become a competitive wrestler too. The reverse is certainly true. If you are a highly skilled and competitive wrestler then go into judo, the same thing.

The orginal argument is whether or not a pure wrestler could beat a pure judoka, not if a champion judoka who also trains in wrestling could beat wrestlers.

My observation has been that most wrestlers can takedown judoka. A pure wrestler might get confused by some of the judo ground work, but in general he will control the guy.

Todiy - Wrestling as we are talking about isn't the WWE type; its the olympic and collegiate styles, like Greco-Roman, Folk, Freestyle.

[GREENTHINKS]

Whats The Differance? The Cloth ... Allows More Grips ... A Little More Control....splitting Hairs Aren't We.... Superman Can Beat Up Spiderman.... My Dad Can Beat Up Your Dad...i Mean Whats The Point Here ???????????? Judo Vs Wrestling More Opportunities For Attack If You Can Grab Some Cloth.. Instead Of Wet Sweaty Skin.... The Suit.. Makes Things Easier...whats The Point???
Mickey Mouse Divorces Minnie Mouse Because She Was Fucking Goofy?

Your Wife Is At The Front Door Screaming And Your Dog Is At The Back Door Barking... Who Do You Let In First??? The Dog Because You Know When You Let Him In .. He Will Shut The **** Up!

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Todiy - Wrestling as we are talking about isn't the WWE type; its the olympic and collegiate styles, like Greco-Roman, Folk, Freestyle.

My point exactly, All these styles do not have GNP (or do they?), or did I miss some change in the rules
So if we are talking "pure" wrestlers and Judoka, then GNP shouldn't be mentioned nor should any technique that isn't part of the curriculum

What finnishing holds/techniques do the mentioned Wrestling styles have?

[GREENTHINKS]

None. They Win When You Are Pinned. That Is The Wrestler Mentality. No Arm Bars No Strangles.plus They Get Penalized If They Throw Too Hard!
AND IN GRECO I THINK YOUR HEAD HAS TO TOUCH THE MAT BEFORE THE GUY'S HEAD THAT YOU ARE THROWING. TRUE?

[EmptyneSs]

pure judo and jui jitsu will probobly fair better if in a REGULAR grappling match i think. pure wrestling just doesnt have escapes from the guard, and no attacks. judo and jui jitsu have tons of attacks and finishers, and better escapes. also learning with the gi not only gives u the option of learning to use clothing as a weapon but makes u more technical. not only that, but there are judo throws from all angles, and all different kinds. a judoka is used to having people try and take him down. thats what judo is, taking down your opponent, and avoid being taken down or your balance broken. ive had some experience grappling with pure wrestlers and ive been able to defend the double leg well most of the time just by sprawling a bit and letting them put themselves in my waiting guillotine. the guillotine is the best counter for a pure wrestlers takedown inmo. even if he takes u down, u will probobly be able to guillotine him still.

this one wrestler had the bad habit of putting me on my belly with only a half nelson, because his wrestling club didnt allow full nelsons in the rules. he could grapple, but very easy to escape and put in guard. jui jitsu has the full nelson, its used to sever the neck muscles from your opponents back.

another thing wrestlers do when u put em in guard is they try to stand up on 2 legs and stack you, but dont know how to escape our attack. this leaves there legs waiting go for you to grab and sweep, or put in submission hold.

even if wrestlers get the takedown, on a grappling mat a judoka/jui jitsuka will most likely surive it just fine.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Randleman a wrestler vs Nakamura a judoka, does it prove anything?

[DimMak]

LOL at a wreslter getting killed in NHB, or UFC by a Judoka... the only thing the wrestler could go for is a ground and pound... shit have you ever heard of this one wrestler... oh shit what was his name... he won a few U.S Greco Roman Wrestling champions.. hmm lemme think, pretty succesful in the UFC.... oh shit yeah, the light-heavyweight champion Randy Couture.... too bad hes never fought a Judo guy.... the judo guy would have killed him right.

(Yes I realize Randy knows more than wrestling, but the majority of his fights are GNP, and his style is listed as Wrestling, and hes known as a Greco Roman Wrestler)

oh and if Couture isnt enough to show the power of a wrestlers ground and pound.... I belive its worked for Tito Ortiz....

I would have no problem in going with Gokor Chivichyan versus either of your wrestling choices, Randy Couture or Tito Ortiz. Since in this particular post one is talking MMA fighters who claim either Wrestling or Judo as their primary. Of course one would want to allow Gokor a few months to train for the match so he could brush off the years of his retirement. Couture has even come to Gokor's dojo to train with him, so that would be interesting considering their familiarity and obvious respect Couture has for Gokor.

Even as it stands today I have heard Gokor is still the man to beat amongst his students, which also includes one of the top UFC Fighters in Karo Parisyan, just to name one of his well known students. The difference in players here would be negligible...the win could go either way in my humble opinion.

[HtTKar]

I thought this article was relevant (enough) to this thread.

http://www.kentuckywrestling.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=131

[Balo]

In Pride FC, Ronan Gardner (Olyimpic gold wrsteler) fought Yoshida (Olympic gold Judo) and took the win, however Yoshida was close a number o times on submission and was heavily out weighed by Gardner.

[CKD]

My point exactly, All these styles do not have GNP (or do they?), or did I miss some change in the rules
So if we are talking "pure" wrestlers and Judoka, then GNP shouldn't be mentioned nor should any technique that isn't part of the curriculum

What finnishing holds/techniques do the mentioned Wrestling styles have?

Eddie Bravo learned the twister from wrestling. I also tapped a guy using a hammerlock I learned while wresting in high school. Also the calf cutter technique I knew from wrestling first. A lot of techniques wrestlers use can become a submission with a little more cranking or a little bit of a twist. For example didn't Dan Severn tap a guy using a cross face only he did a little variation and made it a neck crank? If you told a wrestler he would win the match by using a hold that will make the guy give up I bet he could think of a few ways to torture the dude into tapping. I believe the wrestler would probaly take the judo guy down. Most judoka do not have the best sprawls compared to a good wrestler. I believe if the match was in a gi the judo guy would have a better chance but the wrestler still has a slight chance of winning. However a wrestler also has a very good chance of losing because of his lack of knowledge of the guard and submissions. But most sport judo guys turtle up just like a wrestler when they are taken down instead of using the guard. Todays mma matches are not a good way to compare styles of martial arts because people like Karo Parisyan and Randy Couture are mixed martial artists not judoka or wrestlers. There are some old matches that happened between judoka and wrestlers that would be a good comparison. but who wins the match is largely dependent on the rules.

[Tom Yum]

For example didn't Dan Severn tap a guy using a cross face only he did a little variation and made it a neck crank? If you told a wrestler he would win the match by using a hold that will make the guy give up I bet he could think of a few ways to torture the dude into tapping.

There are some old matches that happened between judoka and wrestlers that would be a good comparison. but who wins the match is largely dependent on the rules.

Agreed...cross-face into a neck cranks is deceptive. Have you ever tried the 'turk' to roll a guy from the mat?

I'm a relative newbie in wrestling, but am learning alot.