A Non Biased Comparison

[7yearsjudoka]

I attended 2 sessiosn of Ninjutsu at my friends class last year and I thought that what I discovered there may be of interest to the general public. Ninjutsu has a minute Newasa focus which made it so that I found that although I was only an orange belt at the time I managed to defeat every one of the students 1 by one on the ground. I wish to know if anybody knows of a Ninjutsu club with a strong Newaza focus. I enjoyed Ninjutsu and had I has sufficient money to continue I certainly would have done so.

[paradoxbox]

I think bujinkan schools that focus on newaza are rare, but I also think that if you are going to spar with them, you should start the session with both of you on your feet. I think it's unlikely you will be able to take one of them to the ground in the first place.

If you want to train in newaza, just train with a partner at a ninjutsu dojo on the ground. The techniques that work standing up generally work the same on the ground, just you don't have any room to move your arms backwards behind you if you're on the bottom..

[7yearsjudoka]

Actually they were quite simple to take to the ground as they weren't familiar with my Judo techniques. Except for the Sensei who seemed to go fairly hard on me. He had ideas for me but I stopped. I think he was disappointed. I enjoyed the sessions though.

[paradoxbox]

Literally ALL judo techniques are found within the bujinkan curriculum, except in the bujinkan there is usually an atemi strike before entry into the technique, and techniques are usually performed in a way where ukemi can not be executed properly.

I think either the school you sparred at was a beginners class, they were sparring with judo rules or they just plain sucked. I think sparring with judo rules seems likely (they may have been going easy on you just because of your judo background), getting into the clinch with any decent BJK practicioner will result in an instant armbar and ganseki nage on you. This is a typical move against judoka who fight against decent bujinkan people and instructors.

Same deal with kumiuchi, especially anyone in the BJK who's familiar with the kukishin yoroi style will severely whoop you when it comes to kumiuchi, as that's what that system is all about.

[7yearsjudoka]

Yes admittedly they did go easy but I still obliterated them on the ground down to the last person. Then the master seemed to want to own me a little so he didn't really let me in for my throws and I got obliterated myself.

[HtTKar]

Well then, you have something to learn from this guy.
May as well give it some time. Maybe your just a better student, more athletic, or more advanced than most of the students in the class. But if the Teacher is schooling you, he has something to teach....even if it's just learning how to not get "owned" by his style.

[7yearsjudoka]

Well then, you have something to learn from this guy.
May as well give it some time. Maybe your just a better student, more athletic, or more advanced than most of the students in the class. But if the Teacher is schooling you, he has something to teach....even if it's just learning how to not get "owned" by his style.

Yes "owned", sorry about my word selection. I don't actually do Ninjutsu because after just a few months the school was shutdown due to complications in the Sensei's personal life. But anyway it was very enjoyable.

[paradoxbox]

There is a ninjutsu favorite of kicking or grabbing the balls to get an attacker out of a mounted position. I would not want to spar in a class where that's allowed during sparring though..

I'm sure if you spar with someone in ninjutsu long enough, once they're used to the limits, they will give you a good run for your money. It's not that students don't have skill, it's that many are unfamiliar with how far to push their partner in randori, and how far they can be pushed. Once they know their limits you will see the techniques work standing up or lying down, and in fact many of the techniques are very dangerous which is why most ninjutsu dojo do not practice full speed sparring in the first place.

The skill is there they just need to practice it more.

[paradoxbox]

I was reading this post a little while ago and thought I may not have made my intentions clear enough, IMO it's VERY easy to go all out and totally demolish your training partner. The techniques of the bujinkan will very easily break joints or bones without much effort or skill. All it takes is a hard twist of the hips and spine while holding onto a joint / performing a lock and the 'victim' is toast. It takes a lot more skill and self control to be able to perform them in a controlled manner that can be practiced repeatedly without severely injuring your partner.

[JkD187]

i doubt 100% you would get out of a mount preformed by an experienced ground fighter.

[JkD187]

using the ball grab or kick w.e sorry i forgot to add that

[Mr. Arieson]

I think we should really ask RobertG's opinion on all of this...(since the idiot believes there is no such thing as Ninjutsu )

But seriously, I like how in my Dojo, they don't go easy on you much...it's pretty much pain when they first show you a technique, and then you get to practice it slowly....but they want you to feel it first!!

[paradoxbox]

I doubt very much that you could get a ninjutsu guy in the mount outside of a sport fight.

[JkD187]

define a sport fight to me?

[paradoxbox]

A sport fight is a fight conducted with rules defined to protect one or both participants from maiming or death. The rules may also define certain techniques or movements that are not allowed and may also restrict the use of foreign objects such as weapons, incapacitants, etc.

Real fights usually start with a sucker punch or surprise attack, unless there was a preamble of unintelligable, or drunk swearing and namecalling prior to it starting.