Just Suppose????????

[tkd_person89]

great comeback

[kuk sool won]

2 reasons for that

a) its true

b) you have absolutely no comeback for it

[Hardball]

Yikes, back to the topic please. These are interesting replies on the 5 techniques. I'd like to hear from more people; I'm taking notes. I especially like the suplex takedown answer.

[gabbah]

If it's a serious fight that I for some reason must win:

1. some leg takedown (single or double leg or whatever)
2. going for mount (should be really easy if he has no training)
3. armbar, break arm. I find this technique will work with a very high probability. brawler = will extend arms to push me off, making it a childsplay to get the armbar.

You probably don't even need to hit him while in mount. He will extend his arms in panic pretty much as soon as you have the mount and try to get up.
Once his arm is broken he can't fight.

At least this is how I think I would win a fight with least injure to myself (assuming he's unarmed of course!), and also it would be fast. And breaking his arm is in no way lethal, which is also good. I will run the risk of him biting my calf pretty bad... but I guess I would have to live with that.
Thoughts?

[Hardball]

If it's a serious fight that I for some reason must win:

1. some leg takedown (single or double leg or whatever)
2. going for mount (should be really easy if he has no training)
3. armbar, break arm. I find this technique will work with a very high probability. brawler = will extend arms to push me off, making it a childsplay to get the armbar.

You probably don't even need to hit him while in mount. He will extend his arms in panic pretty much as soon as you have the mount and try to get up.
Once his arm is broken he can't fight.

At least this is how I think I would win a fight with least injure to myself (assuming he's unarmed of course!), and also it would be fast. And breaking his arm is in no way lethal, which is also good. I will run the risk of him biting my calf pretty bad... but I guess I would have to live with that.
Thoughts?

What if he rolls you or bucks you off before you get the arm bar? What if he arm bars you from the guard? Why did you only name 3 techniques?

[gabbah]

What if he rolls you or bucks you off before you get the arm bar? What if he arm bars you from the guard? Why did you only name 3 techniques?

I thought the premise was that we're fighting a brawler, not a technical fighter.
Armbar or other techniques from the guard require some training on his part, and I assume he doesn't have that. I'm assuming he will use force and brawler stuff. He has been in quite a few street fights, but hasn't trained anything formally.

Having said that, you make a point about bucking when I have mounted him. Bucking is a natural reaction, as is pushing the person off you by extending your arms. This is also to try to control his arms so he can't hit you.
Bucking would be his best option, but it's hard to buck someone off that is content to just holding the position don't you agree? You would need to control at least one arm. Someone untrained will have a hard time pulling that off, especially because they don't even have the basics down.

So, if he starts bucking wild, I would just hold the position, perhaps some crossface or light hitting. He will pretty fast give an arm.
A safer way is to just lie on him keeping position as soon as I have mounted, so his wild bucking attempts will only tire him out. After that he will probably start to push me off him, which will lead to the armbar.

I only mentioned 3 techniques because I think that's all it would take against a brawler with no knowledge or training of the ground game. A guy that goes on instinct, and thus far has relied on agressiveness and strength.

[aseepish]

If you're mounted and striking (with palms and forarms to avoid busting up your hands), the other guy will most likely try to block (giving you the armbar), cover (giving you a figure 4/Americana/Paintbrush), or turtle (giving you whatever you want, pretty much). If he bucks you can hop to the high mount ("s" mount) position http://www.abhaya.ca/mundial3.jpg - even easier to armbar him from here. If he rolls you, he's still in your guard.

[aseepish]

It's kind of difficult to include grappling in these lists because an armbar from the mount involves a lot more technique than a jab or cross. You have to get to the mount, which might involve a takedown, transition, or escape from an inferior position. Then you have to maintain the mount, which is a technique in itself, especially if the other person knows what they're doing. You might also have to counter his defense if he grabs his own arm or coat or whatever he is wearing.

It's an interesting exercise to put these kinds of limits on our thinking though.

[gabbah]

If you're mounted and striking (with palms and forarms to avoid busting up your hands), the other guy will most likely try to block (giving you the armbar), cover (giving you a figure 4/Americana/Paintbrush), or turtle (giving you whatever you want, pretty much). If he bucks you can hop to the high mount ("s" mount) position http://www.abhaya.ca/mundial3.jpg - even easier to armbar him from here. If he rolls you, he's still in your guard.

yeah, that's why I would want to get the full mount as soon as possible. And against un untrained person this is easy.
From the leg takedown most probably end up in half mount. Depending on his legs position (which untrained people pretty much just let lie there), you will go for full mount directly or via sidemount.

A good example of this is in the early UFCs. Hoyce Gracie beat his opponents (that didn't know the ground) super easy. They had no idea what the next step was when they ended up on the ground, but Hoyce knew and has also extensive training in it. Basically his opponents can be seen as our "brawler" in this thread.
But if the premise is that his trained in something, then it's another thing entirely. Luckily, most brawlers/bullies haven't put in the time training something...

[gabbah]

It's kind of difficult to include grappling in these lists because an armbar from the mount involves a lot more technique than a jab or cross. You have to get to the mount, which might involve a takedown, transition, or escape from an inferior position. Then you have to maintain the mount, which is a technique in itself, especially if the other person knows what they're doing. You might also have to counter his defense if he grabs his own arm or coat or whatever he is wearing.

It's an interesting exercise to put these kinds of limits on our thinking though.

I disagree!
I think that it takes much more training to getting a good jab and cross than a basic armbar.

Also, a properly executed leg takedown will land you in half or sidemount. When he has fallen to his back, you still control his legs as you're still holding them, and from there you move to sidemount.

Have you grappled someone that has very limited knowledge of the groundgame? I have, and I find it very easy to get the mount. These people don't even think "oh, he has sidemount on me, if I don't protect it he will move to mount!". No, they only know your holding them down from the side. Suddenly you're sitting on them (in mount). As soon as you're there they realize that they're in a very bad situation, and try to get up by pushing and rolling to the side. Thank you for the perfect armbar situation. And they don't know that what is happing even as you have grabbed their arm and start taking the armbar. They might not even know that you can brake their arm once you have the armbar.
Once again, the premise for my answer was that I'm fighting a brawler, meaning he swings wildly and is totally tense all the time while he fights. This guy does not know the ground game. He may know some very basic boxing and some lame ass kicks.
He might be dangerous for someone who has no training in boxing. Luckily I have so I would see his punch coming a mile away and go for his leg as he throws it.

But sure, you have a point that my description involves more techniques than the way I have counted it. But I don't agree with that it would be hard to pull this off with the brawler.

Perhaps this would be more fair then:
1. leg takedown
2. sidemount
3. mount
4. positioning/preparation for armbar
5. armbar

:P

[shadowkiller]

Most brawlers don't know anything about a guard so you could probably mount quite easy if you have enough ground skill to control. He would just be trying to punch or push you off. But then again he might have a hold of your hair or something. Not sure what you could do for that, but by that time I would be eye gouging out something, if he hadn't done it already.

Bralwers are mean fighters. My opinion would be that if you can strike do that and keep him off of you. When people go to the ground they usually by that time don't think about what they are doing, they just want to hurt as quick as possible and get up.

[Tom Yum]

You are in a fight; street or ring and you are only allowed to use 5 techniques. Which 5 would you choose?

Here are mine:

1.) Choke hold
2.) Front Thrust kick {Foot Jab}
3.) Right cross
4.) Left Hook
5.) Back Fist

1. right cross
2. left hook
3. ax elbow
4. clinch knee
5. push kick

[Mr. Arieson]

Wow, those are some awesome posts! I just learned a whole lot of good stuff!

[Eyegouge]

1. gun
2. knife
3. metal bat
4. brick
5. flameable liquid+fire source

any single technique from any five of those fight trumps.

for the ring
double leg
heel and knee chest plow
ability to control mounted position
elbow strikes

[Hardball]

1. gun
2. knife
3. metal bat
4. brick
5. flameable liquid+fire source

Ha Ha Ha...Very Clever answer.