Karate Useless?

[Motion]

I think part of any style's effectivness will come down to how you are trained to apply your style on non-martial artist or street fighters.

I think too many martial artist get to used to fighting or sparring with other martial artist in their dojos. In the dojo everyone is going to be focusing on using correct punching and kicking technique. This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners. So I think schools should have students strike each other in the way most street fighters would so that the students will not be overwhelmed by how untrained fighters will attack you.

[thesnake]

This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners. So I think schools should have students strike each other in the way most street fighters would so that the students will not be overwhelmed by how untrained fighters will attack you.

i agree but also some style can be completly ineffective against certain attacks used in street fighting

[Crimson Khan]

im not gona comment on karate
but to people who say martial arts arnt for fighting...well what exactly were they designed for then? creating wind?
no, martial arts (i'll try not to be too general because i dont know every martial art) were designed for combat
i cant say every martial art is, but the words martial arts means fighting arts
its not marital arts ok?
muay thai and many chinese martial arts were created specificaly for fighting
not street fighting but wars/battles
capoera (i kno i cant spell it) would have to be the only exception i can think of
but as far as i know it was first created as a fighting system also

[Tom Yum]

im not gona comment on karate
but to people who say martial arts arnt for fighting...well what exactly were they designed for then? creating wind? no, martial arts (i'll try not to be too general because i dont know every martial art) were designed for combat
i cant say every martial art is, but the words martial arts means fighting arts
its not marital arts ok?

Two words: Yellow Bamboo.

muay thai and many chinese martial arts were created specificaly for fighting not street fighting but wars/battles capoera (i kno i cant spell it) would have to be the only exception i can think of
but as far as i know it was first created as a fighting system also

There's some truth to that.

[aku aku]

I think part of any style's effectivness will come down to how you are trained to apply your style on non-martial artist or street fighters.

I agree completely. If you want to make your kung fu or Aikido or whatever work against a street fighter or a boxer it's best to train with a street fighter or a boxer and figure out how to make it work. If a technique doesn't work it's usually not because the technique is flawed, it's usually because the person doing it is lacking certain attributes that are needed such as: timing, distancing, reactions, line familiarity, etc. Simply knowing a technique isn't enough.

This won't be the case with most street fighters. Their style will be more wild and loose than what you'll find with your dojo sparring partners.

I think a street fighter that learns martial arts will be one of your tougher opponents. Just because a desk jockey or a lawyer or someone goes to karate class after work doesn't necessarily make them a fighter but street fighters are fighters to begin with and if you give them some training they will only be more effective.

[Crimson Khan]

tom yum
or any one else that can answer me

whats yellow bamboo?

[jeff5]

Not all schools or instructors are bad. You can find a tradtional Karate school that trains hard, trains against resisting opponents, shows realistic (not basic punch and kick) applications of kata, and get a good grounding in striking type of self defense. (and grappling too if they're smart) But I guess what I'm saying is be careful, most Karate schools aren't like that.

There are some guys who are doing great things with Kata and Karate and trying to make it a lot more combative. One guy is Ian Abernathy. Check out his site. His Applied Karate and Kata Based Sparring is especially good.

http://www.iainabernethy.com/

[jeff5]

I'll also say that most "tradional" martial arts only have traditions that go back 50-70 years. Lets take Karate for example because that's what this thread was about. I've done a lot of reading and research, and I'm convinced that in the old days on Okinawa those guys trained HARD. What we would call aliveness, sparring, training against a resisting opponent etc., was all in there. As well as hitting...things. Today we hit focus mits and bags. Yesterday they hit makiwara, and a ton of other training equipment. They actually had quite a few training tools, so it wasn't all punching in the air. (I'd argue most of it wasn't) They also did a ton of body conditioning. Those guys were tough cookies, make no doubt about it.

The problem is that when this stuff got imported to Japan and then subsequently Korea, most of that was taking out. The makiwara for example. Alot of the hard training methods that trained your hands, wrists and body were also removed. I'm sure a lot of the full or very hard contact drills and sparring were removed as well. The fact is we have very little information on how those guys in the old days trained because it was secret, and a lot of the records were destroyed in the Battle of Okinawan in 1945. (many of the people who had the knowledge were killed too) Most of what we do have though, indicates that, traditionally, they trained much much harder than what we would consider "traditional" martial arts training today.

The reason that it was removed is that Karate wasn't imported to Japan to be a hardcore type self defense art. It was imported to become a physical fitness program, mainly aimed at young boys making them physically ready for the Japanese military. And its through Japan and Korea that Karate (and TKD etc.), have become most widely known.

Again, I'm sorry to generalize, but what is widely taught today is the watered down, physical education, children's Karate. There are definately exceptions, but you have to look fairly hard to find them.

[wado_kai]

to say any martial art is useless is arrogant and ignorant.... ithe only thing that is useless is the person who wud say this(if understand martial arts you understand this statement)! try opening the mind a little and seeing whats really within the martial arts!

[jubaji]

Since my post explains alot, this thread should be closed so nobody can flam or argue about inferior or superior martial arts.

Oh, is that how it works?

[jubaji]

Well, that's terrific...

[Nips]

[Yu Law]

In a way, a martial art shouldn't be about fighting. It should be about protecting yourself and others. People have this wrong idea about MA these days and it could largely be due to fight/MMA tournaments.

Martial arts weren't created so people could step into an octagon and beat the shit out of each other. That isn't the true martial way anyway.

So anyway, Karate is not useless. Even the not-so-respected Shotokan is good when trained right. There is no useless style, only useless practitioners and teachers.

Lot of UFC fanatics respond to that by saying, "Losers who can't fight say that to make themselves feel better".

That = pure ignorance and stupidity.

Shotokan is what Van Damme did/does, y is it not respected?

And the problem with takign any traditional martial art to be better at defendign yourself and knwoign how to "fight", is that it takes years and years of practice to be a good fighter.

Pple generally do not have th epatience to be black belts etc....

If you are willing to spend many years to be good, any martial art is a good choice, as long as u stick to it and practice.

This is y a lot of pple r opting for the MMA/UFC fast track, b/c they dont want any of the traditional of martial arts and just want the fightign aspect.

Muay Thai is very good for self defence and although it has tradition and culture, many of the fighters in thai land do it for a livign and the matches they fight literally decide if they eat or not, that is y Muay Thai is so effective, don't knwo how they teach it in NA, but they train to fight and beign good doesnt take 10 years.

Sorry if i osund like a 5 year old, with my grammar but im in a rush, i swear im no SPED.

[Buttfly]

Dudes why the crap argue besides seeing who is wiser Dont be mad at me and think im an idiot well do what you want i dont control anyone anyway im sure i got a dumb side to me its called my carnal self and my conceptually trys to compensate in some foolish ways and i got nothin agenst self defence and fun well this was a waste of time seeya later guys

[Slavez3ro]

I think the big problem between ppl making their voice heard is that the ones that speak is the ones that is not good at a style..
The reason i say so is because if u ask your Master if this style is better than that style u would be amased at the answer, because u think because low rank fighters gets beaten between each other the styles is crappy.

U okes are so wrong.
Take the top ranked okes i would like to use Steven Seagal as an example i am not sure he is in shape but if he is and he walks in some dojo whatever style he will be respected not for what they think of him or the movies but everybody knows he can do what he says he can..
Argue that one with prove pls.