Japanese Martial Arts

[B.Y.O.B.]

I want start another art this year, but dont know which one. So what do you recommend. That is a japanese martial arts and why?

[DoubleJ1503]

well modern jiu-jitsu is great lol even though its now known for being

[danfaggella]

modern jujitsu basically is judo.....

brazilian jujitsu is simply judo training methods and techniquie with more emphasis on ground fighting, few techniques are uniquely classified as "Brazilian Jujitsu."

I wonder why you would like to train in something uniquely japanese? I'm sure they have plenty of cool stuff and different styles over there, I'd proabably gow ith Judo myself, but there must be plenty more.

[Uke]

Here's an alternative

Well, since these guys have already mentioned jujitsu and judo, I may as well go on and recommend Kenpo as taught by Seiyu Oyata. Oyata is the guy that George Dillman ripped off by taking Oyata's seminars and teaching a watered down version of Oyata's karate.

Oyata is the real deal, and if you ever wanted to shut up many of the people on any forum who claim that TMA's don't work, go visit Taika Oyata. You won't be sorry you did. I can just about guarantee that if you do investigate Oyata and his RyuTe, you'll thank me. You won't get Oyata, as he only comes around(stateside) once in a while from what I currently understand. But if you can find Al Geraldi or one of Geraldi's top students, you'll be very happy with what you find.

Geraldi began his own school and named it Zenkoku Ryukyu Kempo . Look into it.

[Booya]

Judo is just throws and seems to be a lot of the sport side of things

jujitsu has kicks punches holds and throws if im not mistaken.

picking one is part of your characteristic i imagine, and what suits you.

[Uke]

"Pure" jujitsu has no kicks or punches. It is a grappling art and the mother of judo. Jujitsu was not a single art as we view it today. Just a component of the fighting way of the samurai. Karate was the striking portion as jujitsu was the grappling portion and kenjustu was the art of the sword.

Today, if you see jujitsu, it probably is a hybrid of styles, but they call it jujitsu because the emphasis on their training is in stand up jujistu grappling and throwing.

[GonzoStyles]

doesnt "pure" jujitsu contain Atemi?

[Uke]

As I said, it came into be because you may classify different aspects of the art, but they are used in conjunction to get a desired effect. Just like in Aikido, atemi can be used. But the art itself is supposed to be able to do the same things by using kuzushi. Just as in jujitsu which was aikijitsu.

Jujitsu was the grappling. Atemi is nothing more than empty hand strikes used to distract to execute throws and locks. If you were to demonstrate just the atemi only, it would be karate. Remember, karate and jujitsu and kenjutsu were only aspects of what Samurai considered one art. Only after when training became "civilized" did thet break it down to schools of just "karate, jujitsu and Kenjutsu. If you want to get technical, karate and jujitsu were not really systems. The names actually describe what actions are taking place, much like chin na is not a system, but a description of a techniques and their function.

A funny story goes that Gichin Funakoshi was introduced to grappling and was attempting to do a shoulder throw. He couldn't quite get it so instead of just using the reaping leg as just a counterweight, he actually used it to kick the guy in the nuts and then threw him. Made me laugh when I first heard it.

[Tant01]

Oh, really?

"Pure" jujitsu has no kicks or punches. It is a grappling art and the mother of judo. Jujitsu was not a single art as we view it today. Just a component of the fighting way of the samurai. Karate was the striking portion as jujitsu was the grappling portion and kenjustu was the art of the sword.

Today, if you see jujitsu, it probably is a hybrid of styles, but they call it jujitsu because the emphasis on their training is in stand up jujistu grappling and throwing.

Don't let the name of the "gentle" science fool you.... Atemiwaza (kicking and punching) is a part of Jujutsu AND Judo... it can be found in KATA... Kata made up about 90% of traditional Jujutsu. Knee strikes and headbutts were there too if you like as well as elbow blows. But don't take MY word on it...

It's all grappling and throwing if you want to think it is. What the heck did Kano know about jujutsu...

[Tant01]

...Just like in Aikido, atemi can be used. But the art itself is supposed to be able to do the same things by using kuzushi. Just as in jujitsu which was aikijitsu.

Jujitsu was the grappling. Atemi is nothing more than empty hand strikes used to distract to execute throws and locks. If you were to demonstrate just the atemi only, it would be karate. Remember, karate and jujitsu and kenjutsu were only aspects of what Samurai considered one art. ......

Who told you this? Where did you read it? What is your source?

Perpetuating misinformation is no worse than making it up yourself... Somebody needs to go back to school. You might try to verify things before you post them, otherwise it just makes you look foolish.

So, are you ignorant or just misinformed?

[Uke]

I love the way you feel justified and righteous just by acting plain ole' ignorant.

Atemi waza, and every other waza were categorized as a collection of techniques so that they could be taught in a regimented way. JuJitsu like Karate is a general term and is not limited to only one fixed set of techniques. The techniques predate ever being classified as jujitsu, but jujitsu was the art of grappling. When taught to survive, there was no one who practiced solely jujitsu or karate on the battlefield. Jujitsu and karate referred to the range of grappling and striking before they ever referred to an art, which is why I used the chin na example because all of jujitsu techniques are said to have come from chin na.

I am intimate with Atemiwaza, and the strikes it came from were from karate. Back then atemi wasn't even emphasized because warriors/samurai wore armor. So it would make how much sense to hit armor with an empty hand? Atemi was emphasized much later as people didn't wear armor after feudal times. Which is why I stated "pure" jujitsu. Pure meaning jujitsu as it first was when it was taken from chin na. Jujitsu as it was first used on the battlefield when empty hand strikes would have had little to no effect.

Who needs to know their history? Do you even know about what I just wrote, Tant01? Do you even know what chin na is? Did you know it is where jujitsu came from? Do you know that chin na means "seize and grab"? Did you know that jujitsu referred to the grappling range before it ever referred to an art? I doubt it.

Judo, however it may be taught here, is a sport. Kano comes from jujitsu, but when he changed it to judo, he took out the gutter fighting to make it "less intimidating" to those who feared to practice it because there were so many injuries. That was the true purpose of randori. Kano wasn't the first to use the term judo, nor was he the first to use kuzushi. He was merely a jujitsu man who gathered techniques he liked from jujitsu and put his emphasis on first leverage, then kuzushi. Basically he liked to throw people. In a time when jujitsu had gotten a bad name for maiming and killing, Kano made it safe to train in and it became widely accepted because of that. And Judo didn't even use newaza(groundfighting) until Kano and his students got their asses kicked by the Fusen Ryu school who specialized in newaza. Each and every student Kano had lost. Kano begged the master of the school to teach his students the newaza and THAT'S how groundfighting became a part of Judo. And that's how newaza found its way to becoming Brazilian jujitsu. Judo picked up alot and lost alot on its way to becoming what it is.

Seriously Tant01, I was expecting someone to question me about atemi. And I welcomed it. But I didn't expect it to be rude. I guess it takes a little swinging d!ck like you to try and make things hostile.

[jubaji]

some folks just can't resist public masterbation

Who needs to know their history? Do you even know about what I just wrote, Tant01? Do you even know what chin na is? Did you know it is where jujitsu came from? Do you know that chin na means "seize and grab"? Did you know that jujitsu referred to the grappling range before it ever referred to an art? I doubt it..

...............oh, brother.....

[Tant01]

What it's NOT...

....I used the chin na example because all of jujitsu techniques are said to have come from chin na.

I am intimate with Atemiwaza, and the strikes it came from were from karate. Who needs to know their history? Do you even know about what I just wrote, Tant01? Do you even know what chin na is? Did you know it is where jujitsu came from? Do you know that chin na means "seize and grab"? Did you know that jujitsu referred to the grappling range before it ever referred to an art? I doubt it.

.......

I suppose it depends on which particular Ryu you claim to be a master of...

Karatedo is a product of the 20th century. Chi Na is from China.

SHIN NO SHINDO

Early school of jujutsu believed to have been founded by Yamamoto Tamizeemon, of the Osaka police, during theTokugawa era (1600-1867); he added other techniques, especially those of immobilization, to the repertoire of the yoshin ryu school. Shin-no-shindo is one of the two arts combined to form the tenilnshinyo school of jujutsu.

SOSUISHITSU RYU

Variation of Takenouchi ryu jujutsu, this branch of jujutsu was reputedly founded by a samurai named Fugatami Hannosuke in 1650. Fugatami, after a period of purification in the Yoshino mountains, named his method after the "pure flowing waters" of the Yoshino River. He taught it to Shitama Mataichi, members of whose family, whether by direct lineage or by adoption, appear to have been masters of this art for centuries. Eventually, their school joined Jlgoro Kano's successful synthesis of "ju" arts, called judo.

SUMAI

One system of Japanese unarmed techniques was Sumai, that developed out of what we now know as Sumo. It was more than merely a system of unarmed wrestling techniques, and probably was similar to many mixed martial arts and no holds barred fighting systems so popular today, as this account from the Nihon Shoki ("Chronicles of Japan," an historical record commissioned by the imperial family in 720 A.D.) demonstrates:

"It is recorded during the reign of the emperor Suinin in the year 23 B.C. Taema no Kuehaya (who was described as a noble of great strength and stature) fought Nomi no Sukune of Izumo province. During the course of this ferocious battle Nomi delivered a monstrous kick to the ribs of Taema (breaking them) and knocking him down. Nomi then finished him with a bone crushing stomp on Taema's hip. An injury Taema would die from a day later."

In the interm sumo played no small part in the martial development of Japan, and eventually received imperial patronage (during the Nara period 710 to 794 A.D.). Although many of its techniques were be known by imperial officials and military men, Sumai was not the type of combat method which directly lent itself to deal with the rapidly evolving and improving methods of combat, such as the armored sword wielding adversary. It did, however, likely provide a suitable platform for modification, and no doubt inspired the art of Yoroi Kumi Uchi (grappling in armor).

TAKENOUCHI RYU JUJUTSU

Form of jujutsu founded by Toichiro Takouchi (aka Hisamori Takenouchi) in the 16th century. He studied a number of different combat systems, from which he formed his own style, stressing immobilization techniques, as well as those of close combat with daggers. His style soon developed a large following and was taught for many generations.


UCHIDA RYU

Uchida Ryu Tanjojutsu or "Sutteki-jutsu" as the word stick is pronounced in Japanese is known as the walking stick art and emerged during the Meiji era when walking canes were in vogue. Uchida, Ryogoro included "sutteki-jutsu" into the Shindo Muso Ryu

YAWARA RYU

Yawara Ryu takes its name from the terms used to describe meekness (Yawara Gi), Pacifier (Yawara Ge), and the Japanese character Yawara which can mean gentle or pliable, or can be used as a noun to describe grappling with weapons or unarmed combat. The school teaches a complete system, with a coherent methodology applied to both its armed and unarmed techniques. The principles and techniques of the system are founded on those previously tried and tested on the battlefield during the armed conflicts throughout Japanese history. From these, Ryu gi (sects or systems) developed differing methods or schools, each placing different emphasis on one aspect or another of the fighting arts. All, however, had one aim borne out of the Jutsu tradition, to provide an effective and direct way of dispatching an antagonist whether by killing or subduing him. What better "Melting Pot" or testing ground than this could exist for a combat self defence system to develop.

Yawara Ryu can trace its line of development back to the traditional Ryu which taught a large number of Sciences or Jutsu, but tended to specialise in one or two areas of study; thus students studied both armed and unarmed techniques....

[jeff5]

Judo is just throws and seems to be a lot of the sport side of things

The actual Judo developed by Kano has strikes, locks, self defense forms, and ground work in it. (yes we know the groundwork was added later as stated above, and the Goshin Jitsu stuff was added in the 50s) The problem is that with the modern emphasis on sport and Olympic competition these things are either not stressed in modern Judo, or not taught at all. Which is a shame, and not what Kano intended. The sport is a means to an end, not the end in and of itself, which it has become in recent years for many schools. The reason we see mainly throws is that was the best/safest way, according to Kano, to practice, and compete, and not injure or even kill each other. (obviously your not going to do randori with Atemi Waza strikes or dangerous throws etc., you and your partener wouldn't be training for very long. )

[Uke]

...............oh, brother.....

This coming from a guy that thinks that WWF wrestling is the realest form of combat. Jubaji thinks that there are mats, ropes and turnbuckles in the street, and all he'd have to do is drop the Macho Man elbow off the top rope to beat a knife attack.

OOOOOOOh Yeah!

Seriously, it could work. Couldn't it?