Biting? A technique or a girly move??

[us-navy-seal]

Well I believe this thread was originally posted over the BITING issue...not for personal feelings to come out. These are all opinions, meaning you shouldn't take them to heart.

Not pointing to anyone in particular...just saying my 'opinion'.

[medic06]

Welcome to the forum!

[us-navy-seal]

Welcome to the forum!

lol...if only life were simple

[Hikage]

UNS,

I wouldn't loose any sleep over them bickering. This is just the natural circle of life for threads. When a thread is first started, they spend their first few hours being explored, but it often takes a while for the pace to pick up. At this time, we are unsure as to the direction the discussion will take us. At this stage, the thread is much like an infant learning to crawl. We may know a little about his/her personality, but we know next to nothing about what s/he will become.

Then over the next few days, the speed picks up and the direction of the thread is made steadfast as we enter the teenage years. This is where the actual discussion takes place and we (gasp) have people talk to each other normally and respecfully.

Then we head into the cranky days. Much like humans, threads get cranky when they are about to die. Go back and look at the final posts on threads that go on for more than 3 pages. They usually end in fighting matches.

In the end, one cannot stop them from arguing, it is only natural. You might as well ask cows to produce clam chowder.

-Hikage

[Dim Wit Moc]

I couldn't care less about anything but the bottom line. that's why I study martial arts. Whatever it takes to survive to live another day. Biting, tire iron, sand in the eyes, hammer fist with a real hammer, etc.

Since I don't mess with nobody, anyone who is on the receiving end has worked at it.

[Garland]

Back to biting;

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+ss+SO+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+frn+11+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+dstb+ES+mh+1+ri+KAAACB5A00002890+8806&_uso=%5F8&fn=11&rn=20

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=mh+1+frn+1+sl+%2D1+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+dstb+ES+sel+False+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+A363&_uso=%5F9&fn=1&rn=3

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=mh+1+sl+%2D1+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+dstb+ES+sel+False+frn+21+426F&_uso=%5F9&fn=21&rn=22

OUCH!

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+frn+31+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+dstb+ES+mh+1+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+2EFC&_uso=%5F9&fn=31&rn=36

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=mh+1+ss+SO+sl+%2D1+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+fh+False+frn+41+sm+ES+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+dstb+ES+sel+False+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+6446&_uso=%5F9&fn=41&rn=42

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+ss+SO+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+frn+71+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+dstb+ES+mh+1+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+8E5F&_uso=%5F9&fn=71&rn=71

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+ss+SO+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+frn+71+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+dstb+ES+mh+1+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+8E5F&_uso=%5F9&fn=71&rn=77

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http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=mh+1+sl+%2D1+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+ri+KAAACB5A00002890+dstb+ES+sel+False+frn+21+90BA&_uso=%5F8&fn=21&rn=26

[Garland]

The mouth is a tool (V Parvula is a helping aide in fucking up somebodies day...)

Title: Measurement of the size and orientation of human masseter and medial pterygoid muscles.
Author(s): Hsu CW; Shiau YY; Chen CM; Chen KC; Liu HM
Author's Address: School of Dentistry, College of Medicine, National Taiwan University, Taipei, ROC.
Source: Proceedings Of The National Science Council, Republic Of China. Part B, Life Sciences [Proc Natl Sci Counc Repub China B] 2001 Jan; Vol. 25 (1), pp. 45-9.
Publication Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Information: Country of Publication: China (Republic: 1949- ) NLM ID: 8502426 Publication Model: Print Cited Medium: Print ISSN: 0255-6596 (Print) NLM ISO Abbreviation: Proc. Natl. Sci. Counc. Repub. China B Subsets: MEDLINE
MeSH Terms: Magnetic Resonance Imaging*
Anthropometry/*methods
Masseter Muscle/*anatomy & histology
Pterygoid Muscles/*anatomy & histology
Adolescent; Adult; Anthropometry/instrumentation; Humans; Image Processing, Computer-Assisted; Male; Mastication; Reference Values; Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't; Software
Abstract: To gain a better understanding of biting and chewing performance, the size and orientation of the masseter and medial pterygoid muscles in living humans were studied. Twenty-seven young males having complete dentition, class I dental occlusion and normal muscle and jaw function were examined using magnetic resonance images of the head between the zygomatic arch and hyoid bone. The sections were parallel to the palatal plane, and the thickness was 3 mm without a gap. A computer software program (Medical Dental Image, MDI) was developed to identify and calculate the area of each cross section of the muscle, and the volume of the muscle was then estimated. The axis of the muscle was determined by connecting the centroids of the sections in the lower and upper 1/3 of the whole muscle. The effective muscle cross section area was then calculated by resectioning the muscle perpendicularly to the muscle axis. It was found that the mean masseter muscle volume was around 31 cm3, and that the mean medial pterygoid muscle volume was 11 cm3. Their mean effective cross section areas were around 6.2 cm2 and 3.5 cm2, respectively. The axis of the masseter muscle was more perpendicular to the palatal plane and parallel to the sagittal plane than was the medial pterygoid muscle. The results suggest that the use of magnetic resonance images (MRI) is an effective noninvasive measurement technique for determining the size and orientation of masseter and medial pterygoid muscles. This technique can be employed in future studies on human bite force evaluation and masticatory function.

e: Contribution of jaw muscle size and craniofacial morphology to human bite force magnitude.
Author(s): Raadsheer MC; van Eijden TM; van Ginkel FC; Prahl-Andersen B
Author's Address: Department of Orthodontics, Academic Centre for Dentistry Amsterdam (ACTA), The Netherlands.
Source: Journal Of Dental Research [J Dent Res] 1999 Jan; Vol. 78 (1), pp. 31-42.
Publication Type: Journal Article
Language: English
Journal Information: Country of Publication: UNITED STATES NLM ID: 0354343 Publication Model: Print Cited Medium: Print ISSN: 0022-0345 (Print) NLM ISO Abbreviation: J. Dent. Res. Subsets: Dentistry; MEDLINE
MeSH Terms: Bite Force*
Masticatory Muscles/*anatomy & histology
Neck Muscles/*anatomy & histology
Adolescent; Adult; Body Height; Body Weight; Cephalometry; Female; Humans; Male; Masseter Muscle/anatomy & histology; Masseter Muscle/ultrasonography; Masticatory Muscles/ultrasonography; Multivariate Analysis; Neck Muscles/ultrasonography; Regression Analysis; Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't; Sex Characteristics; Skull/anatomy & histology
Abstract: The existence of an interaction among bite force magnitude, jaw muscle size (e.g., cross-sectional area, thickness), and craniofacial morphology is widely accepted. Bite force magnitude depends on the size of the jaw muscles and the lever arm lengths of bite force and muscle forces, which in turn are dictated by craniofacial morphology. In this study, the relative contributions of craniofacial morphology and jaw muscle thickness to the bite force magnitude were studied. In 121 adult individuals, both magnitude and direction of the maximal voluntary bite force were registered. Craniofacial dimensions were measured by anthropometrics and from lateral radiographs. The thicknesses of the masseter, temporal, and digastric muscles were registered by ultrasonography. After a factor analysis was applied to the anthropometric and cephalometric dimensions, the correlation between bite force magnitude, on the one hand, and the "craniofacial factors" and jaw muscle thicknesses, on the other, was assessed by stepwise multiple regression. Fifty-eight percent of the bite force variance could be explained. From the jaw muscles, only the thickness of the masseter muscle correlated significantly with bite force magnitude. Bite force magnitude also correlated significantly positively with vertical and transverse facial dimensions and the inclination of the midface, and significantly negatively with mandibular inclination and occlusal plane inclination. The contribution of the masseter muscle to the variation in bite force magnitude was higher than that of the craniofacial factors.
Entry Date(s): Date Created: 19990308 Date Completed: 19990308 Latest Revision: 20041117
Update Code: 20051225
PMID: 10065943
Persistent link to this record: http://search.epnet.com.ezproxy.west...dm&an=10065943
Database: MEDLINE
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[Garland]

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=mh+1+sl+%2D1+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+dstb+ES+sel+False+frn+111+785F&_uso=%5F9&bk=C&fn=121&rn=123

Amputation of a finger caused by tearing with the premolars, not a clean incisor induced chop.



there are alot more case studies of reconsturction needed for noses, and ears....as well as shredded (lacerated or avulsed) tendons and ligaments...
as well as morbidity and infection rates post-bite.

Like this... (and I won't EVEN post the one about the mental patient who amputated some poor person's "organ")

Title: DOGS, CATS, AND TYSON , By: Kulman, Linda, U.S. News & World Report, 00415537, 07/14/97, Vol. 123, Issue 2
Database: Academic Search Premier
Section: Outlook
Bites

DOGS, CATS, AND TYSON


It usually doesn't occur with millions of people watching. And most victims don't lose part of an ear. But what happened to Evander Holyfield at the teeth of Mike Tyson was something that 1 of 2 Americans at some point experience: They get bitten by a mammal.

The Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology quantifies the problem in an article entitled "Dog, Cat and Human Bites." Injuries inflicted by the mouth are caused most often by dogs: 1.6 million bites a year. The No. 2 "mammalian bite" is that of cats, harming perhaps 400,000 people a year. Human bites seem less frequent; some studies show as few as 72,000 a year.

But human bites are usually more infectious. "I would much rather be bitten by a dog than by a human," says the review's lead author, dermatologist Robert Griego of Mesa, Ariz., who notes that over 42 species of bacteria inhabit the human mouth, with up to 190 in cases of gum disease. Before antibiotics, 1 in 3 human-bite victims required amputation of the infected part of the body.

The most serious human bite is known as "fight bite"--a puncture to the knuckle that occurs when one person's fist meets another person's teeth. But the ear, nose, and lower lip are common targets in brawls. "The ear comes closer to your mouth in the natural course of a fight," notes Dr. Jim Fordice, a Houston otolaryngologist. Not only can it be bitten "like a cookie" but it also is the hardest to reattach.


By Linda Kulman

Abstract: Human bite injuries of the lip have, because of the potentially contaminated nature of the wounds, been managed by delayed repair after an interval of about 3 months or more when the infection was controlled and the wound healed. On the contrary, from 1985 to 1990, at a plastic surgery unit in Nigeria, a developing country, 37 patients with human bite losses of the lip were managed by an aggressive approach utilizing (1) a 5-day course of antibiotics locally known to be effective against bacterial flora and (2) immediate surgical operation employing the diamond wedge excision method under local anesthesia with direct wound closure. The results have been so favorable that this method of management of human bite injuries is considered a treatment advance.

[Garland]

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+ss+SO+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+dstb+ES+mh+1+frn+111+05E9&_uso=%5F9&bk=C&fn=151&rn=155

http://web10.epnet.com.ezproxy.westminstercollege.edu/citation.asp?tb=1&_ug=sid+915D70A9%2DBFDB%2D48E1%2D9A75%2D217134948100%40sessionmgr4+dbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+cp+1+8BCF&_us=sel+False+ss+SO+hd+False+hs+False+or+Date+mdbs+aph%2Cawh%2Ccin20%2Ccmedm%2Ceoah%2Ceric%2Cf5h%2Cfunk%2Chch%2Chxh%2Cpbh%2Ctth+fh+False+frn+111+sm+ES+sl+%2D1+dstb+ES+mh+1+ri+KAAACB5A00002953+2FCB&_uso=%5F9&bk=C&fn=171&rn=175

he he he he he....
DOG BITES MAN


A recent article in the Journal of Urology reports that one of the main differences between dog bites and human bites to the male genitalia is that, to quote the abstract, victims of dog bites "tend to seek medical care quickly." Uh huh.

[Garland]

Abstract: We report on a case of an ocular bite occurring during a rape attempt. The patient suffered a conjunctival laceration and a stab injury in the upper eyelid, the point of entry of a severe deep infection that caused limitations in extraocular motility. Antibiotic therapy resulted in a complete cure. Psychopathologic considerations about intentional eye injuries are discussed.

notice it says attempt.
biting apparently worked to this woman's advantage.

[Garland]

I did a google search for human bites...unfortunately most were linked to abuse or sex crimes...but from the nature and type of the wounds...I don't see why it couldn't work in a fight.

Some of the others...warning these are very graphic
a fight bite, an older man who sliced his hand on somebodies teeth in a streetfight, and the results of the morbidity and the infection

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ispub.com/xml/journals/ijem/vol1n2/bite-fig2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php%3FxmlFilePath%3Djournals/ijem/vol1n2/bite.xml&h=353&w=470&sz=23&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=n0BSSGvC3fF4OM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfight%2Bbite%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

human ear excised (amputated) by a human bite

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v196/n4/images/4810991f1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v196/n4/fig_tab/4810991f1.html&h=362&w=288&sz=34&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=pTz71iWYQoA68M:&tbnh=121&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhuman%2Bbite%2Bear%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

Nose deformation at the bottom right hand side due to human bite

http://www.plasticsurgerychandigarh.com/defects/nose/nose_page.htm

Okay...and now with the martial/technical

http://www.geocities.com/jkdinstructor/kinomutai.html

http://www.plasticsurgerychandigarh.com/defects/nose/nose_page.htm

[jubaji]

There's a waste of a lot of time...

It's no secret, nor has it been disputed that fingers and such can be bitten to varying degrees including 'off' and that it really hurts to experience that.


That was never the point of contention here, and isolated anecdotes do not prove anything regarding reasonable approaches to physical engagements.

[Garland]

There's a waste of a lot of time...

It's no secret, nor has it been disputed that fingers and such can be bitten to varying degrees including 'off' and that it really hurts to experience that.


That was never the point of contention here, and isolated anecdotes do not prove anything regarding reasonable approaches to physical engagements.

Say a woman is being held down and about to be raped, or being raped, and the attacker leans in close enough for her to bite his nose or ear off, and free herself...
is that not a reasonable approach to a physical engagement?

[jubaji]

Say a woman is being held down and about to be raped, or being raped, and the attacker leans in close enough for her to bite his nose or ear off, and free herself...
is that not a reasonable approach to a physical engagement?

Her problems, and the solution, were set in motion long before the moment you described. In her position, if biting his nose were the only option available, she would very likely be in for more and more trouble.

[Tant01]

Her problems, and the solution, were set in motion long before the moment you described. In her position, if biting his nose were the only option available, she would very likely be in for more and more trouble.

Yeah Ju. I was going to say it could easily be the last thing she tried...